Star Fox- Lylat Wars [Concluded]

[Nightbringer]

Name: Autolycus
Role: General Pepper
Team: Cornerian Defense Forces
Victory: Town
Personal Objective: Survive the game.
Ability: As long as you are alive, all Cornerian Defense Forces will remain loyal. You are a symbol of hope and leadership to the free people of the Lylat System.
Ship: Cornerian Flagship- The Bloodhound

There are a few things about this role pm that strike me as very false. The first is the objective.The simple venomian objective of staying alive is written out much longer than this, and the word survive is bold. The objective of surviving is also not listed as a personal objective in either the venomian, or star wolf role pms.
This is a small change, that could just be due to inconsistent formating, but it draws suspicion in my opinion.

The ability of keeping CDF loyal also strikes me as unlikely. There has been no sign throughout the game or the write-ups of anyone attempting to convert others. If any member of Star Wolf could convert to venomian (which would be very odd lore wise) it would be more believable. If a member of star wolf has the ability to keep venomians loyal, I'll buy it, but if not, it is fake. It would be fake because we would have seen some converted Venomians by now.

Also, the role of General Pepper does not strike me as one that is in this game. He has barely been in the write-ups, and The Bloodhound has never even been mentioned. All other members of the team have been mentioned together in few write-ups.

There is also no quicktopic html for the town power roles.

Finally, there is no sum up of objectives after the picture of the ship like for venomians and i suspect others.


While these format differences are subtle, I believe that ATPG would have used a template then filled in all the roles with that template. This role breaks that template and is also stated in briefer language in general, invalidating it in my opinion.

Not proof of a faked role pm I know, but Seon showed us it is possible to be convincing, so by looking at the details I don't think we should just buy into this.

[Nightbringer]

Here is my role pm for comparison

"Do you copy? Emergency Maneuvers!"
—Caiman

Venomian Assault Force

http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Venomian_Army

The Venomian Army sometimes referred to as Androssians, was the army of the planet Venom which operated under the control of Andross. The army was destroyed by both the Cornerian Army and the Star Fox Team at the end of the Lylat Wars, although small groups of it remained at least up to the time of the Aparoid Invasion. These groups were kept at bay during those times, being forced to stay on Fortuna as a last resort before the Aparoids invaded.

Role: Venomian Fighter
Team: Venomian Assault Force
Victory: Neutral

It is in your best interest to remain alive. As a neutral, you can only win if your team (VAF) outnumbers the Cornerian team (CDF) at the end of the game, or if you survive the game, or if your alignment changes and you get new win conditions.

Personal Objective: The Venomian Assault Force must outnumber the Cornerian Defense force by the end of the conflict. Your personal survival adds to this.
Ability: None
Ship: Venomian Fighter

The Venomian Forces can win with the town, but this victory condition may change.

[Diana Abnoba]

Okay then, Autolycus is claiming General Pepper, I will give him the benefit of the doubt for now, need to investigate him though.

Unvote: Autolycus; Vote: hell_hound he may be close to Wog bait, but he votes just enough to keep himself from it.

[Nightbringer]

sorry about the triple post, but i had to in order to vote
for the time being though, it looks like we are gonig with
unvote; vote:ATPGood

[Secura]

This post is made of awesomesauce and win-sprinkles.

Great analysis... I like you already, NB. :3

[Nightbringer]

Great analysis... I like you already, NB. :3

Thank you XD

[Diana Abnoba]

Great eye Nightbringer, I'm not that techie, so I would never have found that out on my own.

[Beskar]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...=1#post2508827

I think we could probably give autolycus benefit of the doubt on his claim. But, to investigate him would mean not investigating some one else (then people crying because of that.)

However, the general's picture and ship are in the thread anyway. It could easily be a cover-role.

[Diana Abnoba]

Good point as well, Beskar.

[autolycus]

Nightwanderer, I'd just like to point out that every single other person whose image appeared in that opening list has actually turned out to be a player in the game. Your role PM itself indicates that some sort of conversions are possible: "... or if your alignment changes and you get new win conditions". Beskar's complete PM reveal is persuasive to me. He does want Peppy dead, because it will complete his PG, but right now, we need his aid against Andross.
Unvote: Vote: ATPGood

[Beskar]

Beskar's complete PM reveal is persuasive to me. He does want Peppy dead, because it will complete his PG, but right now, we need his aid against Andross.

Wrong, I already got my Personal Goal, I only require to kill the Big Bad. o_O My Personal Victory was to outlive Star Fox (the player), not the Star Fox team.

[Nightbringer]

Nightwanderer, I'd just like to point out that every single other person whose image appeared in that opening list has actually turned out to be a player in the game. Your role PM itself indicates that some sort of conversions are possible: "... or if your alignment changes and you get new win conditions". Beskar's complete PM reveal is persuasive to me. He does want Peppy dead, because it will complete his PG, but right now, we need his aid against Andross.
Unvote: Vote: ATPGood

I see the line about alignment change as meaning the entire venomian team might align with one side or the other, not as a person by preson conversion. and we have no evidence of any conversions taking place. also, that is only one part of ym argument

[Beskar]

I see the line about alignment change as meaning the entire venomian team might align with one side or the other, not as a person by preson conversion. and we have no evidence of any conversions taking place. also, that is only one part of ym argument

Also combine that with the end of my post. Which is basically: "Bewary of Cornerians".

I think it might mean the Cornerians might start killing Venomians and Star Wolf after the mafia are gone. Not that the venomians necessarily change faction, the Cornerians attitude changes.

[Nightbringer]

Also combine that with the end of my post. Which is basically: "Bewary of Cornerians".

I think it might mean the Cornerians might start killing Venomians and Star Wolf after the mafia are gone. Not that the venomians necessarily change faction, the Cornerians attitude changes.

Good point

[Beskar]

However, it isn't confirmed. It seems to be under certain conditions that actually happens though, which are unknown at this time. Can only presume post-mafia.

[Romanic]

3 ATPGood (autolycus, DiY, Nightbringer)
2 Beskar (Chaotix, wew)
2 CDF (miotas, TheFlax)
1 hell_hound (Diana)
1 wideyedwanderer (CDF)
---
9 not voting (ATPGood, Beskar, civplayah, hell_hound, Khazaar, Psychonaut, Secura, Skooma, khaan)

[Secura]

vote: ATPGood

[civplayah]

vote: ATPGood

[seireikhaan]

Vote: Alextheprettygood

[Choxorn]

Beskar's Role PM proves nothing and disproves nothing. It's obviously been (understandably) edited a little to keep things like his partners and the quicktopic link secret, and could certainly have been edited to keep other things secret.

I find it curious how, despite how much Star Wolf stresses their team is innocent, well, part of the second town, at least, they never fail to act scummy. It reminds me of a NOTW game over at CFC a few months ago where there was this group of 3 people who were members of a government agency called the "Versatile Defense Force" or something like that that were publicly revealed members, and kept saying they were innocent, with most of their argument being the "Defense" in their name, that they were sent to kill the basilisk monster-things the other mafia group was using to kill us. They were telling the truth about that, but were also sent to kill everyone else to quarantine the basilisks (it's a long story). They avoided lynch for a few days, at which point I, who had taken over a player who left the game, kept pointing out the ridiculousness of there being only one mafia team of three people in a game as large as this, and that I had an ability that only seemed to be useful for killing them. Most people didn't listen, and it turned out they were, in fact, mafia. The game later ended with a serial killer winning (sort of) and everyone dying at the last update.

Anyway, Beskar, Secura, and the others I suspect of being Star Wolf all act ridiculously scummy, and have some classic scumtells to them. Diana, my #1 suspect for another Star Wolf member, has also acted so scummy it's not even funny. Like with the aformentioned game, I find it a bit unlikely that Andross is the only mafia team if the neutrals really are intended to work with the town, as a ratio of 1 mafia for every 10 players is simply ridiculous. There's also that ??? killer. It could just be another one or two people in your list of uninvestigated, but that list is getting so small that every single member would have to be mafia to make that correct. It seems more likely that ??? is a member of Star Wolf, as it would account for why we haven't seen any other possible activity from any other faction yet. Also, remember the write-up when ??? killed me, and he used Star Wolf's "Can't let you do that" catchphrase? Uh, yeah.

[miotas]

Unvote: CDF

Vote: autolycus

[Choxorn]

Why vote for General Pepper?

[Nightbringer]

Why vote for General Pepper?

because his role pm is probably fake

[johnhughthom]

because his role pm is probably fake

Like Beskars.

[Romanic]

As far as I know, every character who appeared in the writeups, except Fox's father, is represented in the game. It's likely that General Pepper is also a player, so unless someone counterclaims him, autolycus is likely to be General Pepper.

[Nightbringer]

Like Beskars.

but beskars does not contain any of the numerous flaws that autolycus's does. And general pepper has barely appeared in the writeups, and his si never has. Also, members oft eam star fox woud KNOW that general pepper where in the game because e would be a member of their team. or at least cornarians would. if a trusted player comes out and declares they KNOW there is a general pepper i will buy it

[Choxorn]

Yes, Pepper's not on our team. Neither was Rob64, and look where not trusting him got us?

[Romanic]

Yes, Pepper's not on our team. Neither was Rob64, and look where not trusting him got us?

Exactly Choxorn!

[Double A]

Like Beskars.

I kinda scanned him as neutral.

[Nightbringer]

Exactly Choxorn!

Yes, but no word of general pepper doing ANYTHING has appeared. So tales in the write-ups of him keeping the cornarians loyal against some kind of conversion. And is there any sign in the cornarian role-pms that they might be converted? or of general pepper being important to them?