Gunpowder weapons in STW2

[al Roumi]

Thanks Asai, the wikipedia page for the Battle of Nagashino includes the following lines on the use of Arquebuses/Teppo:

"Between the continuous fire of the arquebusiers’ volleys and the rigid control of the horo-shu, the Oda stood their ground, and were able to repel every charge. Ashigaru spearmen stabbed through or over the stockades at any horses that made it past the initial volleys, and samurai, with swords and shorter spears, engaged in single combat with any Takeda warriors who made it past the wooden barricades."

I found two more relevant citations on Japanese firing drill:

"Oda Nobunaga revolutionized musket tactics in Japan by splitting loaders and shooters and assigning three guns to a shooter at the Battle of Nagashino in 1575. (Popular records stating he used a Maurice-style three-line formation are incorrect according to onsite evidence.[citation needed])" source: wikipedia

"speed of loading had to be practiced, married to the discipline needed to successfully carry out bursts of volley fire that is one rank firing, followed by another whilst giving time for the first to reload and fire again, and so on. This would keep up an almost continuous rate of fire although usually with more than just two ranks." Source

So it seems there is some discussion as to exactly what the firing drill was, but the effect of continuous fire seems to be more commonly accepted. My grand conclusion is therefore that I don't think any of the firing drills in ETW would be historicaly applicable to Ashigaru gunners in STW2.

What would perhaps be more historicaly acceptable is some animation system along the lines of a countermarch. Personaly, I hope CA find a way to emulate "continuous" fire (in volleys) by Asigaru gunners. I'd be disapointed if they simply had the first rank firing and reloading, with the 2nd, 3rd and other ranks immobile, only there to plug in the gaps of the front firing line.

[Tera]

The new engine definitely gives CA the chance to improve guns gameplay in Shogun. Think sieges and naval battles. Also, new unit types like Teppo Samurai are a given. They have the opportunity to enlarge the scope without defiling history - win/win.

However, balance is what they must absolutely get right. In STW 1.0/1.1 musketeers (unlike the useless Arques) were too powerful in battle mode, especially in multiplayer. Almost nobody used infantry archers and cavalry archers were only useful in the hands of those few who mastered them. For those of you who remember the battles back then, unless the attack was a well-planned rush (which was rare and hard to pull off), whoever won the missile battle would almost inevitably win the game. Most of the "skill" involved in a multiplayer battle was the ability to time & position yourself well enough to win the missile battle. At 5,000 - 8,000 koku level, which was the range most multiplayer games were played at - guns were both raw killing machines and morale heavy-hitters. In Mongol Invasion, guns were finally toned down and archers were improved - which led to a more diverse and exciting gameplay. Archers became absolutely lethal against low-armored units, had a high rate of fire, had better range and could be used in melee mode when their ammo was depleted (especially mounted ones).

I am confident the rock-paper-scissors system used in melee units will be good, although we will surely find loopholes to be fixed. For example, I remember people using an full army of high-honour Yari Ashigaru which, until banned/fixed, could defeat any samurai army whatsoever. Let's hope CA can learn from the lessons of the past and also deliver a good balance among missile units.

Tera

[Reenk Roink]

I love how Kage and others bring every little game issue thread nice historical tidbits and pictures. I'm very ignorant of the period and I don't want to be so this is awesome.

[aimlesswanderer]

I must say that I prefer melee units, I don't like it when there are mostly missile units (hello ETW). I didn't use firearms at all in STW.

[Tsar Alexsandr]

I must say that I prefer melee units, I don't like it when there are mostly missile units (hello ETW). I didn't use firearms at all in STW.

You've got a right not to use them. But the Yumi-bow and the teppo-musket are pretty essential to the time period. :D

In history, the Samurai and the teppo gunners fought side by side. Muskets were only so useful back then. Bows had faster reload times and greater accuracy. Infantry on the other hand was still mostly hand to hand type troops. And maybe CA will opt to make the guns more expensive to make sure their aren't too many of them on the field. Even if they were to numerous.... a cavalry charge could fix that.... XD Just as long as the enemy isn't deployed on a muddy hill, with the muskets supported by barricades, and the gunners aren't using alternating fire. (Or if you're Katsuyori Takeda... XD)

Basically just as long as it's not Nagashino.