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Is the "latter half of the game" meant to mean after the onset of the Marian reforms (potentially) in 172 BC?
Originally Posted by CaesarAugustus:
Is the "latter half of the game" meant to mean after the onset of the Marian reforms (potentially) in 172 BC?
Between 133 BC and 88 BC, the Roman Republic's political system changed dramatically. The army was first equipped by the state and then began to professionalize. The Senate failed to deal with this transition wisely, and began to lose the loyalty of the legionaries. Political violence increased, power began to accumulate in the hands of relatively few individuals, the Assembly was increasingly subject to manipulation, and the Senate no longer dictated policy. These events all occur within about 20 years of Marius' first consulship, but some of them have nothing to do with him.Is the "latter half of the game" meant to mean after the onset of the Marian reforms (potentially) in 172 BC?
This change in the Roman political system inaugurates the "latter half of the game". We plan to trigger changes in gameplay to simulate the change in the Roman political system of the late republic, but we will avoid attaching these to any fixed date.
OH MY GOD 
I'ma use this sig
I'ma use this sig
Originally Posted by Atilius:
Between 133 BC and 88 BC, the Roman Republic's political system changed dramatically. The army was first equipped by the state and then began to professionalize. The Senate failed to deal properly with this transition wisely, and began to lose the loyalty of the legionaries. Political violence increased, power began to accumulate in the hands of relatively few individuals, the Assembly was increasingly subject to manipulation, and the Senate no longer dictated policy. These events all occur within about 20 years of Marius' first consulship, but some of them have nothing to do with him.
This change in the Roman political system inaugurates the "latter half of the game". We plan to trigger changes in gameplay to simulate the change in the Roman political system of the late republic, but we will avoid attaching these to any fixed date.
I love you.Between 133 BC and 88 BC, the Roman Republic's political system changed dramatically. The army was first equipped by the state and then began to professionalize. The Senate failed to deal properly with this transition wisely, and began to lose the loyalty of the legionaries. Political violence increased, power began to accumulate in the hands of relatively few individuals, the Assembly was increasingly subject to manipulation, and the Senate no longer dictated policy. These events all occur within about 20 years of Marius' first consulship, but some of them have nothing to do with him.
This change in the Roman political system inaugurates the "latter half of the game". We plan to trigger changes in gameplay to simulate the change in the Roman political system of the late republic, but we will avoid attaching these to any fixed date.
Accenci and Rorarii role seem vague.
My best bet would be that the Rorarii trew their javelins from behind the Triarii (so having an part in battle before Triarii while also having Javelins raining on enemy like with Hastati and Principes). The Accenci, if unarmoured probably pushed the Triarii in the back, giving the Hoplite Phalanx more power. (Like the Thebans did against Spartans at Leuktra as well)
My best bet would be that the Rorarii trew their javelins from behind the Triarii (so having an part in battle before Triarii while also having Javelins raining on enemy like with Hastati and Principes). The Accenci, if unarmoured probably pushed the Triarii in the back, giving the Hoplite Phalanx more power. (Like the Thebans did against Spartans at Leuktra as well)
I've found the recent arguments against hoplite "Othismos" or shoving-match style warfare from Goldsworthy and such quite convincing. If they did not indeed fight like that Accensi must have had a different role.
Perhaps just being there and trying to look like they were part of the army was enough. Intimidation through appearing more numerous.
Oh, and the usual stuff: the preview was very interesting, the new units look very neat, the video was awesome. I'm trying not to anticipate the release too much since I know I have a while yet to wait, but threads like these certainly make that a tough challenge.
Perhaps just being there and trying to look like they were part of the army was enough. Intimidation through appearing more numerous.
Oh, and the usual stuff: the preview was very interesting, the new units look very neat, the video was awesome. I'm trying not to anticipate the release too much since I know I have a while yet to wait, but threads like these certainly make that a tough challenge.
The Rorarii or Accenci may have been there to skirmish and buy time to the Triarii infront, everyone else in back-to-push formation that they were using at that time. You would have had to let the broken Hastati and Principes through gaps in the Triarii so they can reform behind them. All the while the Triarii would not have been in their phalanx formation yet. Preparations would require time so it may be likely that the Romans used a force to delay the pursuers and allow for the formation of the Triarii phalanx.
And the Rorarii and Accenci doing so would be slauthered between an closed Triarii Phalanx and the enemy? :P
The Triari where the last roman line, they where there to hold the enemy, if the Hastati and Principes routed giving them time to regroup and counterattack. So what was the purpose of having the Rorarii and Accensi behind the third line. There may be just a missed interpretetation of what was their role in battle. Being more lightly armed than the Hastati, the role of the Rorarii may have been that to offer support both to help the Triarii hold their line as Randal said or to throw their pila if they had any from behind. Or simply their role was that to guard the baggage and any fort the Romans constructed, they where not deployed for battle.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Well first page said that Romans recorded them being used in battle. Its simply not clear how. It also said that a unit or Triarii, Rorarii and Accenci even had a special name. Meaning they probably worked together.
Now i know the reason why we are all alive...
ITS EB II
ITS EB II
AVE! :)
I have one question. In unit's decriptions there are some info about two types of unit. Roman and Latin. What are the differences beetwen this two kind of unit (hastati for example). Other skin, stats or something else ?
BTW. I love yours work :) Thanks alot!
I have one question. In unit's decriptions there are some info about two types of unit. Roman and Latin. What are the differences beetwen this two kind of unit (hastati for example). Other skin, stats or something else ?
BTW. I love yours work :) Thanks alot!
Other skin, different recruitment zones imho... I dunno about the stats... Not much difference probably...
Originally Posted by nazgool:
In unit's decriptions there are some info about two types of unit. Roman and Latin. What are the differences beetwen this two kind of unit (hastati for example).
There's no difference at all. This same basic unit was raised from among Roman citizens and Latins.In unit's decriptions there are some info about two types of unit. Roman and Latin. What are the differences beetwen this two kind of unit (hastati for example).
Random question, what's the reasoning behind in the sideways grip for the Principes scutum? Aren't most Roman Scutum found with a 'bucket handle' grip like the Hastati have on their shields?
We haven't added the animations yet.
Nice preview!
Indeed very nice! Hope you change the animations some, cause the 'everyone standing still except the few that are being attacked' animations of Vanilla M2TW was kinda sad.
ahhhhh........
i want to play as Romans in EB2 right NOW....even if it's still being worked on.
i want to play as Romans in EB2 right NOW....even if it's still being worked on.
Sorry to bother about it, but do not forget that "tribal" units in italy adds flavor to the Carthaginian, Epirote and Gallic campaings, even the greeks would benefit from the EB I rooster, Lucanians, Brettioi, Saminiciti (both units) and campanian are very usefull and much desired for those who invade Italy, so please, preseve as many as possible!
This looks truly magnificent! I can't wait for the day that this mod is downloadable.
Will the Europa Barbarorum Team be including warriors of the Aequi, Volsci, and other related peoples? I know that they had been subjugated by this point, but they still existed as a distinctive culture, which would have meant arming themselves in the traditional manner. They had unique weopons and armor that set them apart from other Italic peoples, as is shown in the ancient Capestrano Warrior statue.
Originally Posted by SPQRules:
Will the Europa Barbarorum Team be including warriors of the Aequi, Volsci, and other related peoples?
The Aequi were just not an important people during our time period. The Romans had confiscated much of the land in former Aequian territory and founded coloniae (such as Carseoli) on it. Many of the Volsci had already begun to Romanize. For instance, the people of Fundi and Formiae had become citizens without voting rights at the conclusion of the Latin war in 338 BC, and consequently served in the legions rather than in allied cohorts.Will the Europa Barbarorum Team be including warriors of the Aequi, Volsci, and other related peoples?
The most important non-Roman Italian peoples were the Oscan-speaking tribes related to the Samnites: the Samnites themselves, the Marsi, Marrucini, Vestini, Ferentani, Paeligni, Alfaterni, Campani, Apuli, Lucani, Bruttii, and others. They supplied all of the non-Roman Italian units in EB1. For EB2 we'll add at least one unit from an Italian people not represented in EB1.
Originally Posted by Atilius:
The Aequi were just not an important people during our time period. The Romans had confiscated much of the land in former Aequian territory and founded coloniae (such as Carseoli) on it. Many of the Volsci had already begun to Romanize. For instance, the people of Fundi and Formiae had become citizens without voting rights at the conclusion of the Latin war in 338 BC, and consequently served in the legions rather than in allied cohorts.
The most important non-Roman Italian peoples were the Oscan-speaking tribes related to the Samnites: the Samnites themselves, the Marsi, Marrucini, Vestini, Ferentani, Paeligni, Alfaterni, Campani, Apuli, Lucani, Bruttii, and others. They supplied all of the non-Roman Italian units in EB1. For EB2 we'll add at least one unit from an Italian people not represented in EB1.
But were there not other people of Italia who were related to the Aequi and Volsci in fighting style who were not yet conquered? If I am not mistaken, the Marsi were one example.The Aequi were just not an important people during our time period. The Romans had confiscated much of the land in former Aequian territory and founded coloniae (such as Carseoli) on it. Many of the Volsci had already begun to Romanize. For instance, the people of Fundi and Formiae had become citizens without voting rights at the conclusion of the Latin war in 338 BC, and consequently served in the legions rather than in allied cohorts.
The most important non-Roman Italian peoples were the Oscan-speaking tribes related to the Samnites: the Samnites themselves, the Marsi, Marrucini, Vestini, Ferentani, Paeligni, Alfaterni, Campani, Apuli, Lucani, Bruttii, and others. They supplied all of the non-Roman Italian units in EB1. For EB2 we'll add at least one unit from an Italian people not represented in EB1.
Originally Posted by SPQRules:
But were there not other people of Italia who were related to the Aequi and Volsci in fighting style who were not yet conquered? If I am not mistaken, the Marsi were one example.
The Marsi are generally considered a "Sabellic" tribe along with the Marrucini, Paeligni, and Frentani. The Volsci and Aequi belong to the "Umbrian" group with the Umbri and Hernici. I have seen claims that, unlike the other Sabellics, the Marsi spoke a highly Oscanized Umbrian dialect. I don't know how to evaluate those claims, but historically the Marsi usually acted in conjunction with the other Sabellics, and not with the Aequi or Volsci. Polybios grouped them with the Marrucini, Frentani, and Vestini when he enumerated the military strength of the Romans allies on the eve of the gallic invasion of 225 BC. He makes no mention of the Aequi or Volsci.But were there not other people of Italia who were related to the Aequi and Volsci in fighting style who were not yet conquered? If I am not mistaken, the Marsi were one example.
I don't have much to say about the fighting style of the Aequi and Volsci, but we can examine the equipment of the warrior of Capestrano you mentioned earlier. Aside from his pot helmet and neck guard (which probably don't belong the the EB time period anyway), he's equipped much like a typical Samnite or other Sabellian warrior.
How does one go about setting the avatars in the preview as your actual avatar? I looked through all the choices for avatars and could not find them, and I set it as my profile picture, but that doesn't do any good because nobody can see it.
Wow, this looks fantastic! I'm fairly new to M2TW and now I'm glad I never bothered to pick up RTW. Its all right here!
My question is how does the Roman army progress? Is it only through scripted "reforms" (ala "Marius reorganizes the legions" or whatever) or through gameplay? For instance, do you have to fight the Celtiberians to get access to the gladius to "tech up" to the Polybian legion of Punic War fame - similar to how the Apaches in Kingdoms have to fight a European faction to get access to horses and firearms? If this is covered elsewhere, sorry to bother, but could someone please provide a link.
Thanks for all the work going into the mod and looking forward to its release.
My question is how does the Roman army progress? Is it only through scripted "reforms" (ala "Marius reorganizes the legions" or whatever) or through gameplay? For instance, do you have to fight the Celtiberians to get access to the gladius to "tech up" to the Polybian legion of Punic War fame - similar to how the Apaches in Kingdoms have to fight a European faction to get access to horses and firearms? If this is covered elsewhere, sorry to bother, but could someone please provide a link.
Thanks for all the work going into the mod and looking forward to its release.
Recruiting the locals that influenced early Roman warfare was something really fun in EB, especially when it comes to conquering Rome as another mediterannean power. The Bruttian and Samnite Infantry that can be hired also help for the realism of these people taking any advantage to help take out Rome. Bruttian Infantry is awesome!
Originally Posted by fomalhaut:
Recruiting the locals that influenced early Roman warfare was something really fun in EB, especially when it comes to conquering Rome as another mediterannean power. The Bruttian and Samnite Infantry that can be hired also help for the realism of these people taking any advantage to help take out Rome. Bruttian Infantry is awesome!
I thought they said they were taking out the Pezoi Bettioi and replacing them with some other Sabellian unit.Recruiting the locals that influenced early Roman warfare was something really fun in EB, especially when it comes to conquering Rome as another mediterannean power. The Bruttian and Samnite Infantry that can be hired also help for the realism of these people taking any advantage to help take out Rome. Bruttian Infantry is awesome!
In EB 1 the cammilian soldiers have rectangular shields but in EB 2 there have oval shields?
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