Did Prince Charles completely go bonkers?

[Pannonian]

That anyone can make poor choices and sin. Most of us are well-intentioned but hardly infallible. The same holds true for the Holy Fathers; past, present, and future.

How dare you suggest the Borgias were anything but models of piety.

[PanzerJaeger]

The islamphilia of the British is absolutely something to get worked up about.

When you put it that way, it's hard to disagree...

[Kadagar_AV]

That anyone can make poor choices and sin. Most of us are well-intentioned but hardly infallible. The same holds true for the Holy Fathers; past, present, and future.

Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error.

I see your point! Just kidding, I think you lost the point in 1870 or so.

[Incongruous]

Hey Frag, if you so hate "Islamo-Fascism", why don't you put up (or do something else) and go fight the Taliban? I'm sure there are many ways for you to do this.

Not keen?
Then I suppose I should say talk is cheap.

[Kadagar_AV]

Hey Frag, if you so hate "Islamo-Fascism", why don't you put up (or do something else) and go fight the Taliban? I'm sure there are many ways for you to do this.

Not keen?
Then I suppose I should say talk is cheap.

Maybe Fragony thinks that the best way to fight the talibans is to let them starve in their little country, while intellectually laughing at them on the internet (that they probably don't even have access to).

I for one would support that.

And if you are in favor of the US troops going all Captain America down there, to bomb civilization to them, explain how 9 years AFTER THE WAR STARTED, we still have 2 teenage girls (in the lower bracket of teen) gets whipped when they fled from their marriage with old guys? This was just in the news.

Great success from the US troops, no? I am glad that the US, in this many years, have come to these wonderful results.

No need for Frag to go all army on them. It hasn't not done any good so far.

Much better to shut their borders and let them live the way they want to, until they face a revolution.

[Incongruous]

No, Fragony is keen to bitch and moan about Islamo fascism, but when it comes to doing anything worthwhile about it (such as sacrificing your own safety to bring saftey to the blighted people of Afghanistan), I have not seen him sign up to it.

As to you and your clearly disrespectful attitude towards what is actually going on "down there", bollocks. "let them live the way they want to"? What the hell on are you on? I fail to see how anyone could think that the majority of Afghans wish to live under the rule of the Taliban, you would have to be bonkers.

The occupation of Afghanistan, no matter what any wet soft pinko wants to say, has done away with a governenace far worse than anything NATO has installed. If Frag wants to fight Islamo-fascism, he should sign up for a tour of duty, it would put paid to his absurd notions about the true nature of Islam.

[PanzerJaeger]

Hey Frag, if you so hate "Islamo-Fascism", why don't you put up (or do something else) and go fight the Taliban? I'm sure there are many ways for you to do this.

Not keen?
Then I suppose I should say talk is cheap.

And you can catch a ride with him and stop off in Palestine. Good luck with the IDF.

In all seriousness, ignoring the fact that from what I've gathered Frag is all too happy to let the muslims live in medieval bliss as long as they keep it in the Middle East, your statement on its face is as juvenile as it is hypocritical. Are we not allowed to state opinions on the internet if we're not willing to take up arms in support of them?

[Kadagar_AV]

No, Fragony is keen to bitch and moan about Islamo fascism, but when it comes to doing anything worthwhile about it (such as sacrificing your own safety to bring saftey to the blighted people of Afghanistan), I have not seen him sign up to it.

As to you and your clearly disrespectful attitude towards what is actually going on "down there", bollocks. "let them live the way they want to"? What the hell on are you on? I fail to see how anyone could think that the majority of Afghans wish to live under the rule of the Taliban, you would have to be bonkers.

The occupation of Afghanistan, no matter what any wet soft pinko wants to say, has done away with a governenace far worse than anything NATO has installed. If Frag wants to fight Islamo-fascism, he should sign up for a tour of duty, it would put paid to his absurd notions about the true nature of Islam.

Ok, Again.

a 13 and a 14 year old girl were just whipped down there for running away from their forced marriage with way elder men.

This is after 9 years of "war of liberation".

No wait, the war was about finding Usama bin Laden, wasn't it?

Regardless, if the current result is what 9 years of warfare has lead to, I would much rather stay out. We have not found Usama bin Laden, we have not liberated much.

Heck, we have solved world wars in way shorter time than this :)

I feel, however, that we are straying off topic.

[Incongruous]

I'm joining the British army at the end of this year, as soon as I have finished my Honours course. I speak from the experience of friends who have already served, I doubt they would have much time for the bollocks Frag has posted about Britain and Islam, we are there fighting what he terms "Islamo-fascism" while he tells us we are actually in cahoots with people just like the Taliban.

Yeah, a big middle finger to him too!

[Banquo's Ghost]

Please be advised (again) that personal attacks are not welcome on this forum.

[Fragony]

It's quite simple Bopa I am not interested in the Islamic world, but if I get things right you feel I should join a vigilante movement?

I do something about Islam-facism by the way, I financially support an Iranian foundation that saves people from a blue necklace.

[Beskar]

In all seriousness, ignoring the fact that from what I've gathered Frag is all too happy to let the muslims live in medieval bliss as long as they keep it in the Middle East

Actually, I think you are incorrect. Fragony has spoken sympathy for those who have been oppressed and exploited in the middle east, for example women. I don't think he is heartless or that islamophobic to suggest having people suffer in a medieval bliss. A example of this, is his constant references to Neda and other symbols.

He is really against hard-line islamic fundamentalism, which pretty much everyone reading this topic would obviously be. However, we all express things in different ways. I am personally more inclined to cultural enlightenment, and dealing with fundamentalism in that way, as I believe the majority of Muslims are not hardline fundamentalists and pretty equal to Christians, Fragony has a more direct approach and believes fundamentalism is a majority movement.

[Fragony]

My problem is a reversed one, my problem is the downright creepy respect for the orthodox Islam of the multicultis. They believe in social enginering, and they are making a mistake, they are talking to the wrong people.

edit gracias by the way

[Myrddraal]

I don't think the report was particularly biased, but the responses to this thread are almost (but not quite) as funny as the responses on the Mail website.

What is it exactly that he has done which is so terrible? Is complementing an aspect of one religion so terrible? Perhaps if that religion is Islam. All I see here is rank prejudice (by the dictionary definition of the word).

Is it because he complemented Islam, or is it because he mentioned our climate problems? Something here has obviously hit a nerve, but I'm mystified, and would be grateful to someone who could explain the reasoning.

If you want entertainment, go to the comments section of that website and click worst rated. I've never seen such a reasonable set of statements cause so much spittle to fly.
A rating of - 1600 for someone who dared to say "we are responsible for our actions to humans, animals and the environment alike." Or was it because his name is Mahfooz Hasan ...

[Fragony]

Well I detest the dhimmitude of islamphiles, I detest the fearmongering of the eco-nostra, and I in general detest royals. So yes it strikes a nerve when you see it all united in one public figure who knows absolutely nothing but his comfortable bliss.

[Fragony]

I'm joining the British army at the end of this year, as soon as I have finished my Honours course. I speak from the experience of friends who have already served, I doubt they would have much time for the bollocks Frag has posted about Britain and Islam, we are there fighting what he terms "Islamo-fascism" while he tells us we are actually in cahoots with people just like the Taliban.

Yeah, a big middle finger to him too!

lol missed this, want to know where they can find me? Just a pm will do, beers on me.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Get over it. (Not directed at you, Myrddraal.)

[Fragony]

Get over it. (Not directed at you, Myrddraal.)

Nope that would be asking too much from me, not just for me as you must have noticed by now.

[Skullheadhq]

The Daily Mail? That's donkey feces of the highest order, comparable to our Telegraaf.

Wow, I thought the British had some quality newspapers...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error.

I see your point! Just kidding, I think you lost the point in 1870 or so.

Actually, the doctrine of infallability very specifically does NOT connote the Holy Father to be without sin -- an all too common misunderstanding.

As to the wiki quote you used (without citation or linkage I might add), it reads in FULL:

Papal infallibility is the dogma in Roman Catholic theology that, by action of the Holy Spirit, the Pope is preserved from even the possibility of error[1] when he solemnly declares or promulgates to the universal Church a dogmatic teaching on faith or morals as being contained in divine revelation, or at least being intimately connected to divine revelation. It is also taught that the Holy Spirit works in the body of the Church, as sensus fidelium, to ensure that dogmatic teachings proclaimed to be infallible will be received by all Catholics. This dogma, however, does not state either that the Pope cannot sin in his own personal life or that he is necessarily free of error, even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the specific contexts in which the dogma applies.

Your specific use of the exact wording chosen by wiki suggests that you "cut-and-pasted" same into your reply. You'd have done better to read it.

Of course, alternatively, I could presume you DID read it and chose to be specifically disengenuous in your citation, but as a Catholic I am called to Christian kindness, forgiveness, and charity, so I'll go with the former.

General advice:

If you are going to snipe at the Catholic Church and/or the Holy Father, at LEAST ratchet up your game a bit and get it right.

[Fragony]

Wow, I thought the British had some quality newspapers...

Compared to what goes for quality here they really do

[Subotan]

Wow, I thought the British had some quality newspapers...

We do. The Guardian, Times, Telegraph (When it's not pretending to be the Daily Fail), Financial Times, Economist (Although that's really just a magazine) and to a lesser extent the Independent are all quality papers. However, there are a lot of rags as well, such as the previously mentioned Daily Mail and Daily Express (Tabloids for the middle class) and the Sun, Daily Star and Mirror are all very low-brow. The key thing about British papers is that they are fiercely partisan, almost to the extent of news channels in the USA, and apart from the Guardian, Mirror and (officially) the Independent all the papers are quite conservative.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

paedophilia is a modern concept, in those days, if a female bleeds, she is a woman, not a child. Both christians, muslims and non-christians alive during that time did it, probably even the pope. (The popes were known for their secret wives and love affairs).

True, true, but nutrition then was such that most women began to menstruate between 12 and 16, age of consumation in Christian and pre-Christian Europe usually being 14 or older. Despite what you might think, our ancestors were not brutes and were not into raping little girls.

Did you know that medieval doctors were so convinced a woman had to reach orgasm in order to concieve that pregnancy was considered to make a rape charge inadmissable.

Citing the progressiveness and tolerance of Islam is missing his point. He belongs to the ultra-big CoE, which includes all religions under its roof. Sure, he's the only person who belongs to that wing, but it's still better to understand his view than to mischaracterise it. His view of Englishness isn't our view of Englishness, one in which the rule of law, tolerance of minorities, respect for people's rights, etc. are grounded in secular arguments. His view of Englishness is a society that is grounded in religious principles, and its enemy isn't Islam, but the decay of religious belief. He probably admires the fanaticism of Islamists, whilst finding their specific ideas to be a little odd.

I would say you are partly right. Charles is probably of a brand of Christian that believes God loves all his children, so much so that he will forgive you almost any doctrinal lapse so long as you try to live morally. In other words, he's not pluralistic, he just sees God as extremely tollerant.

In any case, it goes without saying that Charles, as a good Protestant Prince, will have read his KJV and come to the conclusion that Christianity is even more environmentally friendly, but doesn't shout it as loud or forcefully (which chimes with his ultra-tollerant God).

So, I suspect, he is indulging rather than endorsing Islam.

[Louis VI the Fat]

lol missed this, want to know where they can find me? Just a pm will do, beers on me.

Hah! This means that Bopa will now have to fly over to Amersfoort and fight you physically, or else he is not putting up, not willing to put up a fight to back up his internet tough talk.

Presuming he won't, I guess he is now standing in front of his mirror pulling middle fingers to himself and telling that bloke in the mirror his talk is cheap.

[Fragony]

We can only speculate, kidding aside Bopa has my respect wether he wants it or not, good luck

[Devastatin Dave]

Sadly Jesus managed to keep his hands off 6 year olds though...

Come on, you know Aisha wanted some old wierd beard. ;)