A Bridge Zhou Far - Three Stars Rising [Concluded]

[Renata]

A quick answer, as I am stepping out to do job applications and won't be back until late tonight.

This was meant to prompt any guilty parties into being forced to murder. If we had an investigator among us, inaction would have been a death sentence for them.

All right, I've been bashing my head on this one for the last ten minutes and I still don't see the logic.
Bad guys present, suspect an investigator: might logically either lie low hoping for safety in numbers or start killing indiscriminately hoping to mess up the protections; a no lynch only encourages continuation of whichever choice has already been made, I don't see how it causes them to switch.
Bad guys present, don't suspect an investigator: kill kill kill? I don't know honestly, but I don't see that a no-lynch does anything either.

Regardless of all of that, why is it a good thing to encourage the bad guys to kill?

Nothing happens, and Subotan informs us we cannot do "no lynch" anymore.

Here, we decided if we cannot do "no lynch", we should lynch someone who was utterly useless to us. Sort of the same as a "no lynch", just taking advantage of Subotan's extremely slow WOG process to buy us more time.

Same thing then. How does this accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, and why is it a good thing if it does?

To be honest I hadn't read your case at all. I wasn't even thinking about what the south bank people had suggested as suspects, I was too focused on our thread. It is sheer coincidence that I thought Romanic was scummy, and that was based upon just his own behavior in that thread alone, and a conversation I had with him when he was under pressure. Edit: And yes, autolycus made the call and I endorsed it.

All right. I can hardly argue with you finding Romanic suspicious, but the manner in which you pursued your case (and more so the justifications for it) is making my skin itch. That whole "I'll be your vote" thing -- geez Pizza, you should know by now that townies don't always jump at your crazy ideas. We're too busy trying to figure out what's in it for you. The other things mostly weren't much better: with 23 minutes left before end of day, what the heck else is Romanic supposed to say if he's a townie besides "your scumdar needs fixing"? More scummy to me is his utter lack of any suspicion towards you in that conversation. Why do you focus on side issues and miss most of the big things?

The Karl Marx quote, by the way, is the default townie one, and there's a sample floating around somewhere. It's obvious you don't realize that, for whatever that means. Which could well be why Romanic laughed. Or because he really did have that as a starting PM, if he's a recruit.

Why I waited that long to suggest a suspect lynch, was because Autolycus was put with our group, and we needed manpower to protect him. If we lynched an active party every day, by the end there wouldn't have been enough people sending in protection orders.

That doesn't explain the no-lynch, which along with what seemed like a conspicuous avoidance of lynching AVSM, is more and more the crux of my issue with you -- the conversation with Romanic is reading more as "typical Pizza" the more I go over it, which doesn't make it any less aggravating.

He would have been exposed and possibly murdered if we had guessed wrong. Here, we lynched a suspect, and Autolycus is still alive. By the way, iirc none of the protections on Autolycus even functioned. They always had a bad combination of orders (landlubber), people not sending orders (Romanic) or inactive people (AVSM, AVSM, and AVSM). I suggested we get someone besides AVSM to protect Auto, but it never happened. It is out of sheer dumb luck that he is even still alive.

This is interesting. AVSM in Autolycus' protection group, every night? What possible justification could there be for that and whose idea was it? And who knew?

[Renata]

Kind of an out-of-character question, but since we're now done with the North Bank thread, how would you all feel about me merging it with this thread? If I remember things correctly, the posts would mesh seamlessly so there isn't a clump of North Bank posts at the end, rather, say, a post made at 12:01 in the North Bank thread would now be between two posts made at 12:00 and 12:02 on the main thread.

Too confusing, IMO.

[Double A]

They're better separate.

[Subotan]

What would have happened if we chose the stone bridge?

You'll never know... :3

[Double A]

I just got through explaining this to someone on CFC. Only girls can use that smiley!

It's genuinely creepy if a guy does it.

[GeneralHankerchief]

ATPG, before the group split up, what did you do at night?

I'd also like landlubber to answer that question.

[Secura]

It's genuinely creepy if a guy does it.

Leave Subochan alone! :3

[Askthepizzaguy]

There we go. After this, I followed most of your posts and the majority of them all struck me as odd.

No, this did prove I wasn't the hairy man. It doesn't prove I am not Japanese or KMT, and that is a distinction you should be able to make.

I am fine with being today's lynch, because I may not be able to play anymore.

[Splitpersonality]

I just got through explaining this to someone on CFC. Only girls can use that smiley!

It's genuinely creepy if a guy does it.

How dare you say that

:3

[Double A]

Leave Subochan alone! :3

How dare you say that

:3

[wideyedwanderer]

I was thinking my killer may have been one of the two people I accused of being suspicious, Nictel, or ATPG. I was part of the protection group, so the killer may have been aiming to disrupt that. But it would be kinda stupid of them to kill me right after I accuse them, so I'm thinking they may have been framed...

[Double A]

I was thinking my killer may have been one of the two people I accused of being suspicious, Nictel, or ATPG. I was part of the protection group, so the killer may have been aiming to disrupt that. But it would be kinda stupid of them to kill me right after I accuse them, so I'm thinking they may have been framed...

There's an app for that.

Anyway... GH, what have our investigators found out over night? Anything worth the Revolution's full attention?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Nope, though I would very much prefer it if the lynch option was someone from the North Bank.

[DELETE_THIS]

I agree that the whole North Bank is under suspicion, ATPG took a very active role, I've seen him do so both as innocent and mafia. So unsure of what to think of it, still very suspicious though. However I feel that landlubber tried to hide while in/on the north bank. Starting with asking others what to do:

So, Comrades, what next?

Followed by a post of not wanting to decrease the possible candidates or wanting to seem that the whole group is innocent?:

I'm a little uneasy about lynching. Just because we have so little numbers and no conclusive evidence.

Still he goes on voting for M3YUZ and AVSM but only AFTER several other people have done so, as if not wanting to draw attention to him.

I feel that he tried to hide and as such vote: landlubber

[Romanic]

Why the focus on the North Bank? Afaik the only enemy activity we've seen in the last 3 days was Yaseikhaan being killed by a Japanese Officer, on the south bank. Granted that our enemies could have been laying low on either side, but we know that at least one of the South Bank members is a Japanese Officer.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

We don't believe that the North Bank killer is a Jappo. The text implies he was KMT..."biding time." If GH is saying no on the Jooray/YLC choice, you can be reasonably sure that the investigations are afoot.

ATPG: Were you on an ulterior agenda or was you penchant for "running the show" driving you to do something....

[landlubber]

I'd also like landlubber to answer that question.

I was part of a few protection groups that never developed into actual cliques. I don't have any night abilities.

[wideyedwanderer]

Why the focus on the North Bank? Afaik the only enemy activity we've seen in the last 3 days was Yaseikhaan being killed by a Japanese Officer, on the south bank. Granted that our enemies could have been laying low on either side, but we know that at least one of the South Bank members is a Japanese Officer.

We know for sure there was a killer on the North Bank, and there are only 8 people to choose from. Seems like a pretty good place to start.

Having played with him in past games, I think landlubber has a tendency to follow others, even when innocent. If it helps any, he was part of the protection group.

Nictel, you also weren't very active on the north side.

[Romanic]

We know for sure there was a killer on the North Bank, and there are only 8 people to choose from. Seems like a pretty good place to start.

How do we know for sure that there was a killer on the North Bank? We haven't seen any enemy activity on this bank for 3 days. Are you mixing up the banks?

[wideyedwanderer]

I was killed by a KMT. It was someone from the North Bank group.

[Romanic]

I was killed by a KMT. It was someone from the North Bank group.

We were reunited last night, so I don't think your killer was necessarily from the North Bank. I think he could be any of us alive.

edit: Appears I was wrong.

[Captain Blackadder]

My dear comrade you are mistaken the one known as wide eyed was killed before the assault on the bridge the words of Subotan say it is so

That was a North Bank killer. If you had failed to bring along the Mountain Gun/Mortar/Flamethrower, then people would have died because of the guards in the bridge.

[Romanic]

My dear comrade you are mistaken the one known as wide eyed was killed before the assault on the bridge the words of Subotan say it is so

Hah, I missed that one it seems. Thanks for pointing that out.

Then we have at least a Japanese Officer on the South Bank, and a KMT member on the North Bank (unless the Japanese Officer was Joooray who was lynched on Day 10, after the last South Bank murder on Night 9).

KMT member (5) : ATPG, autolycus, landlubber, Nictel, Split.
Japanese Officer (10): ACIN, Blackadder, Cute Wolf, DiY, Double A, GH, Jolt, Renata, Seamus, Sigurd.

Now I do agree that we should look for the KMT member on the North Bank, as there's only 5 of them left.

[Splitpersonality]

The obvious vote for north bank would either be Nictel (hiding in inactivity) or ATPG (hiding in a very pro-town way, not something ATPG wouldn't do)


to question autolycus at this point would be to question GH, and I don't believe that will accomplish anything now.


Landlubber I am unsure about, he's more active than me, but less than ATPG...

[Askthepizzaguy]

Lazyness and drinking are against the revolutionary masses! It is the peasants who work hard to toil the fields and do not have the luxury to dissipate in wine or other assorted pleasures. If the example does not come from above, how can we exhort the people to sacrifice themselves for the revolution? For this breach of strictness you are condemned to death.

Vote: Beefy

Lovely roleplaying, and yet, no substance.

Vote: Jolt

As alternative to abstain, as I have no clue who may or may not be guilty.

That didn't stop you from voting before.... and for actual suspects, either.

Renata also meant making investigations on me. I am still waiting for somebody to come up with those results.

Vote: Jolt

Jolt seems to think he is the best lynch. Until....

Ah, there we go.

FOS: Sigurd, Yaseikhaan, Capt. Blackadder

Unvote; Vote: Miotas

Other people vote for him. In which case, oh no.... bad idea.

Vote: Sigurd

I'm still interesting in hearing his investigation results too, though.

Certainly good at voting for himself, quoting party propaganda, and following.

That, plus his vote for me, frustrates my nostrils.

Vote: Jolt

[Askthepizzaguy]

All right, I've been bashing my head on this one for the last ten minutes and I still don't see the logic. Bad guys present, suspect an investigator: might logically either lie low hoping for safety in numbers or start killing indiscriminately hoping to mess up the protections; a no lynch only encourages continuation of whichever choice has already been made, I don't see how it causes them to switch. Bad guys present, don't suspect an investigator: kill kill kill? I don't know honestly, but I don't see that a no-lynch does anything either. Regardless of all of that, why is it a good thing to encourage the bad guys to kill? Same thing then. How does this accomplish what you're trying to accomplish, and why is it a good thing if it does? All right. I can hardly argue with you finding Romanic suspicious, but the manner in which you pursued your case (and more so the justifications for it) is making my skin itch. That whole "I'll be your vote" thing -- geez Pizza, you should know by now that townies don't always jump at your crazy ideas. We're too busy trying to figure out what's in it for you. The other things mostly weren't much better: with 23 minutes left before end of day, what the heck else is Romanic supposed to say if he's a townie besides "your scumdar needs fixing"? More scummy to me is his utter lack of any suspicion towards you in that conversation. Why do you focus on side issues and miss most of the big things? The Karl Marx quote, by the way, is the default townie one, and there's a sample floating around somewhere. It's obvious you don't realize that, for whatever that means. Which could well be why Romanic laughed. Or because he really did have that as a starting PM, if he's a recruit.

I read this, and as much as I'd like to respond point by point, most of the issue above ^ here is that we view things differently. I am not sure I could convince you my way is better, especially because it's not, by rule, better. Whichever method is better depends entirely on the results; if a traitor is caught by such a method. A lot of what I do is often throwing stuff at the wall until it sticks; not much of it is necessarily well-constructed or thought out completely. I am trading on whatever rep I have in the hopes that any pressure I put on someone, whether it is at all reasonable, acts just as good as a serious case. When lacking proper evidence, I can still point the finger of suspicion and put the vote of death on someone. If I just keep talking it might eventually sound like I know what I'm talking about. Or perhaps I just exhaust my opponent. Whatever gets the job done. If the person in question is guilty, then what I am saying doesn't matter as much as the fact that I am saying it, and I won't shut up about them being suspect and needing to be lynched. Whether it's an ironclad case or not, it is still a pain in the buttocks and potentially deadly.

In Matrix-like fashion, I declare that there is no spoon. I could recite poetry as my case, it could be bad poetry, and as long as I am voting for the correct person, it still works. However, whenever possible I do try to reveal my thought process and/or any evidence.

That doesn't explain the no-lynch, which along with what seemed like a conspicuous avoidance of lynching AVSM, is more and more the crux of my issue with you -- the conversation with Romanic is reading more as "typical Pizza" the more I go over it, which doesn't make it any less aggravating.

Don't read it! You'll give yourself a headache.

This is interesting. AVSM in Autolycus' protection group, every night? What possible justification could there be for that and whose idea was it? And who knew?

I complained about it, but it was Autolycus' call. It's his life to risk. but I advocated putting 4+ people in the group on him right away. What irritates me is that AVSM even posted once in that thread, which said something along the lines of "I always show up to avoid the WOG", after I expressed faux surprise and alarm that he hadn't posted or voted.

[Romanic]

If it helps, here's a status on the KMT as seen by me:

Night 2: One of us was successfully converted by a KMT Officer.
Night 4: Psychonaut is killed by the Japanese and revealed later as a KMT agent.
Night 5: One of us was successfully converted by a KMT Officer.
Day 6: Pinman is lynched and revealed later as a KMT convert.
Night 6: Failed conversion attempt on DiY.
Day 7: TheFlax is lynched and revealed later as a KMT convert.
Night 7: One of us was successfully converted by the KMT (unclear if it's an officer).

3 convertions, and 2 converts killed, so there's one left. We also know there's at least an officer around because N5 shows a conversion by an officer so it couldn't have been Psychonaut.

So, 2+ KMT members to find: One officer and one convert, maybe more. (unless of course they were killed after Day 8 -> corpse investigation will reveal later if we got one from: M3YUZ, miotas, khaan, Joooray and WEW.)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Yeah, and you could add me in the above list, but this is "as seen by me", and I know that I wasn't KMT.

*****

As for the Japanese, we don't know much because they're not converting us. YLC was a Japanese soldier, and we know there's at least one Japanese Officer doing a lot of killing.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The obvious vote for north bank would either be Nictel (hiding in inactivity) or ATPG (hiding in a very pro-town way, not something ATPG wouldn't do)

to question autolycus at this point would be to question GH, and I don't believe that will accomplish anything now.

Landlubber I am unsure about, he's more active than me, but less than ATPG...

Actually, I have better.

I pointed out to Split that this entire post says absolutely nothing; and that his accusations have been against everyone in the North bank, besides himself. He says "I know, it's annoying". I ask him why, and he says because he was waiting for someone to call him out on this.... if he were guilty he'd just be given a free pass to do nothing and say nothing and accuse everyone, which is the same as accusing no one. So I am only too happy to oblige.

Splitpersonality, I hereby accuse you...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

of being a smart . This is something you are clearly guilty of. Don't ever change.

[Splitpersonality]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Actually, I have better.

I pointed out to Split that this entire post says absolutely nothing; and that his accusations have been against everyone in the North bank, besides himself. He says "I know, it's annoying". I ask him why, and he says because he was waiting for someone to call him out on this.... if he were guilty he'd just be given a free pass to do nothing and say nothing and accuse everyone, which is the same as accusing no one. So I am only too happy to oblige.

Splitpersonality, I hereby accuse you...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

of being a smart . This is something you are clearly guilty of. Don't ever change.

<3

[GeneralHankerchief]

Jolt is a confirmed innocent and an officer. He should not be receiving any votes.