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Thread: SW, bodyguards etc

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  1. #1

    Default Re: anywhere to play???

    SW simply has too many factions IMHO. In striving to be as historical as possible, the map is overloaded with factions to the point where provinces are literally choked with agents. This is made worse as many provinces are very small and the castle sizes in MTW are much larger than the old STW ones - meaning that they take up more room in the province.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

  2. #2
    Pleasing the Fates Senior Member A Nerd's Avatar
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    Default Re: anywhere to play???

    SW simply has too many factions IMHO. In striving to be as historical as possible, the map is overloaded with factions to the point where provinces are literally choked with agents. This is made worse as many provinces are very small and the castle sizes in MTW are much larger than the old STW ones - meaning that they take up more room in the province.
    I agree. I also didn't like the fact that certain provinces were rebel, though without a rebel garrison. Basically up for grabs for the fastest faction to move there. I also used to mod the starting koku amounts drastically down, the AI would have huge armies on my borders and a high degree of infastuctre too quickly for my tastes. Trying to take that river province north of Shimazu was a pain in the tookus! Tech tree was great though. I also liked the ahistorical kensai, I would recruit a merc kensai as soon as I found one. He was honor 9 in no time! Didn't like the producable taisho though, the AI always had 3-4 per army! Polite critisizm though, wasted alot of time on this mod!
    Silence is beautiful

  3. #3

    Default Re: anywhere to play???

    Quote Originally Posted by A Nerd View Post
    Didn't like the producable taisho though, the AI always had 3-4 per army! Polite critisizm though, wasted alot of time on this mod!
    I assume you're referring to recruitable hatamoto? The SW modders didn't really have much choice there, unless they went for full size non-retrainable cavalry units (the other option).

    Not making them recruitable would mean that they would not be retrainable either. Of course the AI cannot retrain anyway... It's one of those issues that has plagued modders from the start. If CA had made heirs units regenerate their numbers (like the Daimyo's unit), then bodyguard units would not need to be recruitable at all.

    My £0.02 is that the non retrainable full size bodyguard units are the better option.

    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

  4. #4
    Pleasing the Fates Senior Member A Nerd's Avatar
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    Default Re: anywhere to play???

    I'm not sure I quite understand the regeneration aspect of MTW and SW. I thought I remembered in STW anyway, that after a battle if the enemy daimyo lost all but say 2 bodyguards, the next battle he would have the full compliment back. This wasn't the same in MTW? It's been a while since I played MTW so I don't remember. I never did notice that the AI couldn't retrain units though. Perhaps because I seldom retrained in STW and MTW anyway.

    My £0.02 is that the non retrainable full size bodyguard units are the better option
    I agree (from what I understand). Those Daimyo and Hatamoto units could be so hard to kill, especially the last one! I would often have my whole army surrounding them, taking many casualties compared to their 12 men, knock them down to 1, taking casualties, he would rout but remain in the middle of my army, inflicting more casualties, and seemingly stay there for 10 minuets inflicting still more casualties until he some how broke free of all those men and ran off the map! I just wanted to kill the diamyo and his sons but they would escape with one or two men, then the next battle I would face them again in a stack with about 3 more full hatamoto units! Don't take this as a rant, I'm just babbling with the keyboard! :)
    Silence is beautiful

  5. #5

    Default Re: anywhere to play???

    The MTW engine handles heirs completely differently to the STW one.

    STW has heirs that are born at fixed dates, mature at 16 and then appear in the heirs parchment as unassigned. The heir would then assign himself to the next trained unit. When the old Daimyo passed on, the oldest heir would take over as Daimyo and spawn in the "capital" in a newly created hatamoto unit. The Daimyo's hatamoto unit regenerates it's numbers after battle.

    MTW has randomly generated heirs, that mature at 16 and immediately appear in the "capital" assigned to a bodyguard unit. The problem with these heir's bodyguard units is that, unlike the faction leader's unit, they don't regenerate their numbers.

    Last edited by caravel; 06-17-2010 at 17:13. Reason: added 'Daimyo's' to "...The Daimyo's hatamoto..."
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

  6. #6
    Pleasing the Fates Senior Member A Nerd's Avatar
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    Default Re: anywhere to play???

    Oh, I understand. I was getting heirs and faction leaders confused. Some complain about heirs being assigned to the next possible unit, I always liked that though. Sort of earning their mount if you will. Made them more valuable when used on the field. Awful when accidentially assigned to an ashigaru unit though. The regeneration and endless heirs/hatamotos wouldn't have been so bad, regeneration or not, if they were just a little easier to kill!
    Silence is beautiful

  7. #7

    Default Re: anywhere to play???

    Bodyguards need to be harder to kill, but not useable as an uber unit as they are in RTW or MTW (as in the case of the now infamous Byzantine Kataphraktoi Princes of MTW). STW approached this by using smaller units that could not be used effectively in attacks, except flanking attacks or against much weaker units (even then do you really want to risk your Daimyo in the melee?). In STW, units could not be pulled out of melee once engaged, so this becomes much more critical. The Daimyo is at his best use leading the battles and that's why he has a smaller unit but is also tougher than other units (to lessen the chance of his being shot by the player at the start of the battle).

    I prefer STW's approach to Daimyo's/heir's units and heir assignment than MTW's, but that's just me. The full size non retrainable units are still the better option for the MTW engine though due to how it assigns heirs to (non regerating) bodyguard units instead of regular units. I feel that the non regenerating heir's bodyguard units hit the AI hard, as it has to pay astronomical support costs and cannot retrain them.

    -Edit: If you have original STW (v1.12 - without MI (not the Warlord Edition) give it a go as battles tend to be a lot harder due to unlimited koku for the AI, none of the later fantasy units and no retraining*, disbanding or demolition.

    *at least I'm pretty sure there was no retraining.
    Last edited by caravel; 06-17-2010 at 17:27.
    “The majestic equality of the laws prohibits the rich and the poor alike from sleeping under bridges, begging in the streets and stealing bread.” - Anatole France

    "The law is like a spider’s web. The small are caught, and the great tear it up.” - Anacharsis

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