SW, bodyguards etc

[A Nerd]

as it has to pay astronomical support costs and cannot retrain them

It would seem resonable that something in the coding could be done to automatically retrain the AI's body guard unit and charge them appropriately even if the AI didn't willingly allow for it. Perhaps by merely having the army in a garrison or something like that. On the field would be a different story. Perhaps this wasn't done because the AI would often have 3 or so bodyguard units per army and would be very difficulty to defeat if they regenerated on their own. I know nothing of coding however.

Also in STW, units could not be pulled out of melee once engaged, so this becomes much more critical

I would often pull out my generals from melee I engaged them in when they started to take too many casualties, mabey I was exploiting the mechanics. Now that you mention it, not being able to do such seems much more appealing. Though the fact that they can still run away safely when totally surrounded still remains.

[caravel]

It would seem resonable that something in the coding could be done to automatically retrain the AI's body guard unit and charge them appropriately even if the AI didn't willingly allow for it. Perhaps by merely having the army in a garrison or something like that. On the field would be a different story. Perhaps this wasn't done because the AI would often have 3 or so bodyguard units per army and would be very difficulty to defeat if they regenerated on their own. I know nothing of coding however.

The developer (CA) could easily have made bodyguards non trainable and regenerating. It didn't for some unknown reason which is why you have the flawed system in the vanilla (MTW) game. They would not regenerate on the field, obviously, but after battles or at the end of next turn. In MTW it was a bit of a mish mash and a mess, which indicates to me that the devloper didn't really finalise the bodyguards functionality. Byzantine Kataphraktoi have full units as do Russian/Novgord Boyars, whereas all other factions get the small 20 man units that are so easily taken down with missiles. (I've often wiped out most of a royal line in a single battle). The SW mod went for the approach of being as close to STW as possible in that respect, but in my humble opinion it just doesn't work with the MTW engine. I found that when playing with factions such as the Asai, Mori or Sanada that the support costs for heirs can be absolutely crippling - a known problem inherited from vanilla MTW.

This campaign started well, but the economic stagnation got to me after a while though: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...-Asai-Sukemasa

(It's still by far the best MTW mod though, in my humble opinion).

[A Nerd]

It would seem to achieve some sort of game balance the developers gave the weaker factions strong bodyguard units to compensate for the others starting positions and available resources (?). This wouldn't seem to make much sense for the byz, perhaps it was unbalance in unit roster, concerning the AIs use of them or somehting along those lines. I haven't played MTW in a long time and when I did was always a catholic faction.

It just seems strange that if support costs were so expensive for bodyguard units, why would the AI produce so many, in terms of SW anyway? Perhaps I am missing something.

Going to read the link now! :)

edit: Just read it. Impressive! Makes me want to play again. STW though, not SW! Not that SW was bad though...

[caravel]

It just seems strange that if support costs were so expensive for bodyguard units, why would the AI produce so many, in terms of SW anyway? Perhaps I am missing something.

For the most part, the bodyguards are auto-generated when an heir matures.

Moved this thread here from the Sword Dojo.

[A Nerd]

For the most part, the bodyguards are auto-generated when an heir matures.

I realize that, but the AI also seems to produce alot of those hatamoto units. I don't know what the support cost is for these, but I tinkered with the files and made them more expensive to produce and he still produced alot of them. I could have had them confused with heirs though. Does the AI get an easier job at marrying other clans princesses? I used to have a heck of a time getting my sons married! Even early in the game! Not to change the subject of course.

[caravel]

The AI tends to train a lot of bodyguard units if they're available too easily - I can't recall the requirements for Hatamoto in SW. Also making a unit more expensive seems to make the AI think it's a very good unit and try to train more of them. As a general modding rule, it's best not to alter raising costs to acheive any other end than to reflect a unit's value.

It's also possible that the hatamoto units that the AI is fielding are the remnants of former bodyguards or heirs that have fallen out of the line of succession. If the AI is going all out training Hatamoto though, this probably needs addressing.

[A Nerd]

That's probably true. A lot of sons come of age when comparing MTW to STW, I guess I forgot that. Too bad in SW sons who came of age were assigned lesser units like in STW and got the bodyguard unit upon becoming daiymo. I always liked that coming of age aspect in STW. Ashigaru heir, what a blast!

Someone once told me you could disable the bodyguard unit such that they were unproducable, I couldn't figure out how and eventually SW got deleted. I definately lack all the necessary and appropiate skills when it comes to modding. MTW, in certain aspects anyway, was quite user friendly from what I remember. Anyway, I've heard windows 7 doesn't like MTW so it probably won't get reinstalled any time soon.