So no mod support...

[edyzmedieval]

There will not be mod support for Shogun 2, as some had hoped. This is confirmed from "Angry Joe's" notes in interview with Kieran Brigden, which he discusses in the second video below at about 5:55.

http://angryjoeshow.com/2010/06/shog...nterview-demo/

So we can say goodbye to any improvements whatsoever. It's only DLC's and patches.

VERY disappointing.

[Martok]

Well I don't see how that's any different that with previous TW titles. The only difference is that at least CA's being honest about it this time. Better that, than continually lie about promise mod tools and then never make them available....

[Gregoshi]

Interesting interview and commentary. Some new information here but all the commentary on the demo seem to focus on the same things. I'd love to know if combat feels more like the original STW or more like RTW - visuals aside.

[Hooahguy]

ho-hum...

[Intranetusa]

The people at CA are similar to the bast*rds at Activision.

It took serious balls for Infinity Ward people to quit like that after they got fed up with Activison's bullsh*t.

[pevergreen]

The people at CA are similar etc etc

Just saying, forum rules require entire word to be asterix'd out, not just a letter.

That aside, I don't want video interviews, but like Martok said, at least they are out and saying it. I really should take that proposal of mine to them...

[Mailman653]

That's too bad, I think part of what made TW a strong series was it's modding potential like for MTW or RTW, those games are getting older by the year but they have perhaps some of the best mods the community has been able to produce IMO.

[General Malaise]

That's too bad, I think part of what made TW a strong series was it's modding potential like for MTW or RTW, those games are getting older by the year but they have perhaps some of the best mods the community has been able to produce IMO.

Indeed, the more I hear about this the more I'm feeling it'd be better if someone tried to get a group together to make a Shogun mod for M2TW instead. Or maybe that Ran no Jidai mod for RTW will be out by the time Shogun is too.

[caravel]

It's only DLC's and patches.

Which is no doubt the main objective. By blocking modding attempts, DLC is more attractive, etc.

[hoom]

If the game is good out of the box I'm ok with this.
I never played any Shogun or Medieval mods (though now I think of it I have the idea that the last patch for Shogun was 'community'?)

If however the default game is poorly balanced like RTW/M2TW/Empire, it means no sale because there is no opportunity for that to be fixed.

[Monk]

If the game is good out of the box I'm ok with this.

What he said.

[Furunculus]

crying shame.

[A Nerd]

This seems somewhat unfortunate. I personally like vanilla and am quite satisfied with what it has to offer, been like that with all the TW titles. But I do feel some sympathy for those who like mods and like to make them. I would think that CA could make more money selling the game to people who will buy it solely for modding it or for mods made available to it vs. DLC, but what do I know?

[ReluctantSamurai]

I would think that CA could make more money selling the game to people who will buy it solely for modding it or for mods made available to it vs. DLC, but what do I know?

I am sure the people who made that decision feel that it's sound. And who am I to disagree? If I was that smart, I'd be making money from my own company.......

But I do know this.......Bioware has its act together as far as the modding community is concerned. The mod support given to titles like Baldurs Gate, NWN, and Dragon Age have only served to keep the playing community active, interested, and ready to plunk down whatever Bioware asks for their latest release. I know I do because I know I'll be getting a good product and will be kept playing for years to come by all of the mods.

[Cute Wolf]

Which is no doubt the main objective. By blocking modding attempts, DLC is more attractive, etc.

who'll bought DLC when someone could made them with better, more detailed thingies and FREE?

[Vuk]

That is a huge disappointment. I will not be buying this Total War.

[aimlesswanderer]

This is another decision which seems like they're shooting themselves in the foot - again. Why annoy your fanbase? Like others have said, modding keeps the community engaged and active. People play the game for far longer, and not surprisingly they have a better opinion of the company... Important in the long run I'd say.

[caravel]

I would think that CA could make more money selling the game to people who will buy it solely for modding it or for mods made available to it vs. DLC, but what do I know?

Mods are probably viewed by CA/SEGA as "lost sales", as are second hand game sales. If mods prolong the lifespan of the previous titles (e.g. MTW, RTW and M2TW) then that's a bad thing for CA who obviously want players to move on and buy the newer releases.

who'll bought DLC when someone could made them with better, more detailed thingies and FREE?

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who will pay up for DLC. There is obviously no visible income for CA in modding. Also the Steam platform lends itself best to DLC and multiplayer, which is probably where CA's focus is going to be from now on.

[Swoosh So]

Id have to disagree with the statement "If mods prolong the lifespan of the previous titles (e.g. MTW, RTW and M2TW) then that's a bad thing for CA who obviously want players to move on and buy the newer releases." Im of the impression that people who play mods buy all the totalwar games unless the game is not to their taste at all which would have nothing to do with modding.
Its actually a healthy thing in my opinion to have the ability to mod as it keeps the community buzzing and fresh, generating more interest in the series. For example some players would not normally have looked at totalwar but got it to play the excellent lord of the rings mods (sorry i forget the name), this puts the game in the hands of players who would not normally touch it and they may buy future releases if they get into it. I know that i will buy kingdoms again when the Europa Barbarorum II mod is released (I lost the game dvd when i moved house last year). If it werent for that mod coming out i would not repurchase the game.

[edyzmedieval]

No mod support, I am obviously disappointed, but it's the trend nowadays... If you want to mod, go open source. You have Mount & Blade for that.

[Martok]

That is a huge disappointment. I will not be buying this Total War.

Yeah, but that's only because the next TW title is Shogun 2. Don't pretend you're refusing to purchase it because of CA's recent statement about not providing modding tools. If the next game were Rome 2, you know you'd probably be getting it, mod support or no mod support.

Also: Throughout the entire series, CA has provided very little in the way of mod support (and pretty much nothing at all the last couple games). So why some of you are suddenly so upset about this eludes me; the only real difference is that now they're at least being up front about it and not giving anyone false hope in this regard. Would you prefer CA claim they'll make modding tools available and then fail to make good on that claim (like they have almost every time in the past)? I mean, really.


Would we prefer that CA provide modding tools for Shogun 2? Of course! But since that's not going to happen, then I'd just as soon they tell us now and get the disappointment out of the way right off the bat. Better that, than stringing modders along for months, promising modding tools/support that will never come.

Id have to disagree with the statement "If mods prolong the lifespan of the previous titles (e.g. MTW, RTW and M2TW) then that's a bad thing for CA who obviously want players to move on and buy the newer releases." Im of the impression that people who play mods buy all the totalwar games unless the game is not to their taste at all which would have nothing to do with modding.
Its actually a healthy thing in my opinion to have the ability to mod as it keeps the community buzzing and fresh, generating more interest in the series. For example some players would not normally have looked at totalwar but got it to play the excellent lord of the rings mods (sorry i forget the name), this puts the game in the hands of players who would not normally touch it and they may buy future releases if they get into it. I know that i will buy kingdoms again when the Europa Barbarorum II mod is released (I lost the game dvd when i moved house last year). If it werent for that mod coming out i would not repurchase the game.

In fairness, I believe Asai Nagamasa was actually presenting what is likely CA/Sega's viewpoint on the matter, not his own. I'm quite certain his own perspective regarding games' moddability is quite similar to yours. In other words, you're already preaching to the choir.


(Nagamasa, feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.)

[pevergreen]

Mods are probably viewed by CA/SEGA as "lost sales", as are second hand game sales.

Likely correct. They got rid of the second hand problem when they switched to steam.

At least they are being honest.

I think part of the difference is before it was text files. It wasn't hard to do yourself (RTW/M2TW) with the introduction of new file formats etc, its harder to mod.

[al Roumi]

If the game is good out of the box I'm ok with this.

If however the default game is poorly balanced like RTW/M2TW/Empire, it means no sale because there is no opportunity for that to be fixed.

What he said.

It probably need not be said (again, for the nth time), but recent form indicates that the above is a massive caveat.

Were it not for Darth Mod, Empire would be a waste of time. And Darthmod is by no means the answer to every gaming desire -or TW flaw (I hope Darth himself might think that fair).

But... Darthmod, and all the minor mods which it has encluded, were all done without the promised Mod tools.

Personaly, I'd be more upset if people like Darth said they would discontinue their modding.

[caravel]

They got rid of the second hand problem when they switched to steam.

This is one of the many reasons why I'm opposed to Steam.

As to mod support, there has been none since ETW, so what's new? I disagree with the assertion that people buy the games because of a particular mod. This may be the case in the small minority of sales, but on the whole SEGA/CA makes its money selling new full priced games to new customers - not to the same few thousand members of a particular online forum.

I'm afraid that most TW players don't post on these forums and haven't heard of any of the mods - it's dangerous to assume that we somehow reflect the "consumerbase". Most people buy a game on the strength of what's advertised or based on reviews. Mods are discovered later on by more seasoned players that participate in the discussions online. To be clear I support modding and the inclusion of modding tools, but I can easily see why CA are blocking modding (not to say I agree with their business model - quite the opposite).

Thanks for clearing that up Martok-san

[Nelson]

Mod support or no, Shogun 2 has got to be a bit of a gamble for CA.

Despite being such a ground breaking game, Shogun: Total War suffered from limited appeal due to the Japanese setting. The franchise expanded a lot with subsequent releases thanks to their Eurocentric familiarity. CA has got to be hoping that the fan-base has become so large that a return to the east will do well and not result in a sales slump. We shall see.

[Swoosh So]

Yes id have to agree its a big gamble from ca, rome2 would have been a much safer bet.
I wonder if theyre banking on big sales in japan itself as it surely would not be hard for sega to market it there.

[Nelson]

My understanding of the Japanese market is that they don’t do PC games that much. It’s consoles for them. Unlike Korea.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Could really care less. I only buy TW for the MP side of it, not for the mods. I think the only mods I played for TW in the past 10 years I been doing Total War games, SP or MP, would be :



Pike & Musket (MTW/VI)
Samurai Warlords (MTW/VI)
NTW 2 (RTW/BI)



That's about it. At least CA isn't going to lie this time around!

[Swoosh So]

The more i think about this the more it bothers me, i cannot remember the last totalwar game that kept me interested in the campaign more than a week without me modding files myself or grabbing somone elses mods, Infact when i think back the standard campaigns with the exception of maybe kingdoms were pretty crap out of the box and dident improve much at all with the patches. Im in no doubt ill be bored of the campaign ca offer within a week and being unable to mod it i wonder if i should actually buy the game. I really dont expect to see a mp chat foyer in shogun 2 so i most likely wont be interested in the mp either. Ah well much ado about nothing untill sega or ca announce if they will include a foyer or not. Someone do me a favour and contact me on msn if they ever announce they will cause untill then theres really nothing else they can say to peak my interest.

[rory_20_uk]

FFS. Talk about ingratitude. Modders have earned them a lot of money as without them there's at least 2 game I'd never have bothered getting.

The very least I'd expect these days is for as much as possible to be in text / xml files which would not hinder performance and is easily accessable. If Civ can increase modding in each iteration I'd expect these... persons to do the same.

Is it something simpler? Are they getting embarrassed at how poor the game looks after modders have worked on it and the limitations are only those that are hard coded?