Restoring Wonders

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

I mentioned this in the Wonders Project thread, but due to no responses, I'm posting it here.

I don't have any wonders to present right now, but could it be possible for the team to incorporate the ability to restore wonders? For example: Say Hayasdan gets the Orontid empire reforms, then maybe it can (albeit at a very high, multi-staged cost in terms of both time and money) rebuild the palace at Persepolis? Or maybe the Seleukids might be able to do the same thing, should they become Persophile enough?

I've seen things like this in mods for other games, and was wondering (no pun intended) if at some point a player could restore certain wonders, possibly based on what culture, political position, or religion the nation is?

[athanaric]

Sounds like a neat idea.


While we're at it, has the EB team found a way around the auto-destruction of wonders if somebody pillages a city? In Kingdoms mods like TATW, it is not uncommon to see unique buildings destroyed by the pillaging AI, or even by the player (because there is no other way to pacify the city than to exterminate). This really sucks. I hope EB II finds a way around this, or a way to restore them if they are destroyed by faction x.

[Moros]

You know, you guys gave me an idea...

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

You know, you guys gave me an idea...

Yay, I was useful for once!

Athanaric, that seems like a very good idea... I didn't know of the auto-destroy feature for wonders. Maybe we finally found a workaround? This could also serve as a way to get your FL some positive (or negative!) traits, or even a requirement for certain reforms. Speaking of wonders with negative traits, I thought of a way certain scripts could be tied in with this: Say you are the Seleukids, and your godlike self decides start rebuilding the Tower of Babel. Judea revolts as a result, and you have to deal with great insurrections there before moving on.

[Foot]

Sounds like a neat idea.


While we're at it, has the EB team found a way around the auto-destruction of wonders if somebody pillages a city? In Kingdoms mods like TATW, it is not uncommon to see unique buildings destroyed by the pillaging AI, or even by the player (because there is no other way to pacify the city than to exterminate). This really sucks. I hope EB II finds a way around this, or a way to restore them if they are destroyed by faction x.

Auto-destruction happens when a faction of one religion captures a city containing a building of another religion. Only "religious" buildings will be auto-destroyed, leaving others standing (if perhaps damaged). This occurs regardless of how you treat the captured city. We are using this feature extensively in EBII.

Foot

[athanaric]

Auto-destruction happens when a faction of one religion captures a city containing a building of another religion. Only "religious" buildings will be auto-destroyed, leaving others standing (if perhaps damaged). This occurs regardless of how you treat the captured city. We are using this feature extensively in EBII.

Foot

No, I didn't mean those religious buildings. I meant the disappearance of regular or even unique (wonders) buildings if a city is looted. I found the RTW system with the repairable damage much more rewarding to gameplay (except of course with the governmental structures of EB I. That only allows for exploits). After all, what good is it to have all those descriptions for, say, the Mausoleion of Halikarnassos if it gets irretrievably destroyed by the Seleukid AI on the third turn? It would hamper the educational effort IMO, because there wouldn't be a single campaign where you could take a look at all the unique buildings/natural monuments in your faction's region.

[B-Wing]

We are using this feature extensively in EBII.

Interesting! I suppose this will be used, at the least, to get rid of Central Authority buildings once a region is taken over by a different faction.

[Foot]

No, I didn't mean those religious buildings. I meant the disappearance of regular or even unique (wonders) buildings if a city is looted.

I'm not talking about religious buildings, per se. Rather they are using the religion mechanic to ensure that certain buildings are destroyed on conquest. You make the unique building or wonder part of "relgion x", which no other faction is. Then whenever any faction of any other "religion" captures the settlements, those unique buildings are destroyed. As far as I'm aware, MTW2 does not destroy buildings during the capture of settlement except through that mechanic. In all other cases buildings are either left damaged or undamaged. If you can show me the code that says otherwise, I will be happy to look at it.

Foot

[Ichon]

If you sack in MTW2 isn't there a random chance of "devolving" a building? Not destroying outright, but instead of a "archery range" it becomes "practice range." So higher level buildings are essentially destroyed but some type of lower level building remains.

[Foot]

If you sack in MTW2 isn't there a random chance of "devolving" a building? Not destroying outright, but instead of a "archery range" it becomes "practice range." So higher level buildings are essentially destroyed but some type of lower level building remains.

No, that isn't possible in the game engine, afaik.

Foot

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Maybe we should get back on topic.....

Anyway, could this wonder feature possibly be worked into EB2 somehow? Should I (or anyone else willing to help me :P) start brainstorming good, historically reasonable restoration projects?

[Rahwana]

If you sack in MTW2 isn't there a random chance of "devolving" a building? Not destroying outright, but instead of a "archery range" it becomes "practice range." So higher level buildings are essentially destroyed but some type of lower level building remains.

and I know that in Teutonic campaign. Brhotel and other red light discrict buildings are destroyed if the Teutonic order captures that town, that code was in their campaign script.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

If you sack in MTW2 isn't there a random chance of "devolving" a building? Not destroying outright, but instead of a "archery range" it becomes "practice range." So higher level buildings are essentially destroyed but some type of lower level building remains.

I'm actually pretty sure that this does happen if you sack in MTW 2. I've played enough Vanilla when it first came out and some Broken Crescent and most recently TATW to remember this happening distinctly on numerous occasions. I'm not sure if it happens randomly but whenever you sack an advanced city with large barracks, stables, archery ranges, etc. they seem to devolve into a lower tier building. I can't say for sure if this also happens with other "infrastructure buildings" like markets and such but I'm 99% sure it happens with recruitment buildings.

[fightermedic]

I'm actually pretty sure that this does happen if you sack in MTW 2. I've played enough Vanilla when it first came out and some Broken Crescent and most recently TATW to remember this happening distinctly on numerous occasions. I'm not sure if it happens randomly but whenever you sack an advanced city with large barracks, stables, archery ranges, etc. they seem to devolve into a lower tier building. I can't say for sure if this also happens with other "infrastructure buildings" like markets and such but I'm 99% sure it happens with recruitment buildings.

i have never encounterd anything like this in med2
but i realy do like the idea of rebuilding famous wonders!

[stratigos vasilios]

Hey chaps, just a quick question... Would these factions have actually repaired the wonders if they could have? i.e. man power + money resources. Or would they have used the resources for other projects? I guess this is more a matter of opinion rather than one straight answer? (I hope this is relevant to the OP :S)

[Hannibal Khan the Great]

Hey chaps, just a quick question... Would these factions have actually repaired the wonders if they could have? i.e. man power + money resources. Or would they have used the resources for other projects? I guess this is more a matter of opinion rather than one straight answer? (I hope this is relevant to the OP :S)

Good question vasilios, and I think it really would depend on the Faction Leader and the state of the nation. If he was a builder type, the nation had no major wars, and he had no intention on starting one. (i.e. the player chooses between funding his next war, or rebuilding the wonder.) And of course, the empire's funds would have to be in good shape to finance the project.

My example as to why I would suggest this is that Megas Alexandros was known to have wanted to restore several wonders, and IIRC started on one.

[Blxz]

If you wanted this to work either as a submod or whatever you would need to make a building chain to accurately represent the cost. I have no idea how long a building chain can be but make it as long as possible and have each stage be quite short. Such as a 1 turn, 20 000mnai step that needs to be built half a dozen times or so until the restoration is complete. Maybe more if possible. Rather than a single 20 turn building at 20 times the cost. This allows gradual restorations when funds permit rather than just saving 500,000mnai or only restoring it when you have conquered half the world and have a massive income.

This would actually be nice and would add a bit of flavour to the game, little personal challenges you could work towards, and having to make the choice to cut back spending in order to finance a bunch of buildings. As it is, once you get past a critical mass this game just becomes unloseable and needs a bit of roleplay to keep it reasonable.