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Thread: Was there a Kingdom of Britain before Caesar?

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  1. #27
    Member Member MisterFred's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was there a Kingdom of Britain before Caesar?

    Quote Originally Posted by SlickNicaG69 View Post
    Yes, my friend, especially in the First Punic War, the action was always military. Hiero, you can argue, was a cheap, "diplomatic" steal, but he only switched sides after both he and the Carthaginians, under Hanno, were defeated. After that, it was a prolonged struggle of attrition over land and sea that pretty much was devoid of any foreign influence or interference.
    Livy: "Laelius and Masinissa, who had followed up the defeated cavalry a considerable distance, now returned from the pursuit at the right moment and attacked the enemy in the rear. This at last decided the action."
    As a result of the battle of Zama: "Hannibal... told the senate frankly that he had lost not a battle merely but the whole war, and that their only chance in safety lay in obtaining peace."

    Soooooo... who's this Masinissa guy? Perhaps one of the preeminent examples of political success leading to battlefield success for the Romans? The political success coming first, of course. And let us not forget that some of Scipio's success in Spain during same war was due to wooing or threatening Iberian tribes to support Rome over Carthage. In the "purely military war" as if there were such a thing, Carthage lost Sicily, but threw the Romans back when they invaded Africa. In the war where the Romans thought about using politics and diplomacy, they destroyed Carthaginian resistance in Africa and completely dismantled Carthaginian hegemony. Zama was not an incredible tactical victory. The Romans did little different than they had in numerous previous battles - Scipio was a great general because he, like Hannibal, understood the essentially political role of generalship.

    Military matters are simply a subset of politics, nothing more. And you're simply wrong about Carthage being more politically stable than Rome during the Punic Wars. It trusted its allies and subject peoples far less, to the point of reducing the permitted military defenses for many of them, to its later sorrow. Its internal factional politics interfered with its military efforts more often and in a more serious fashion than Rome's.

    Also, it is quite bizarre that in your haste to insult Gracchus for not praising the legions for... however you wanted him to praise them, you completely change the subject by talking about Rome's role in shaping later history. Which was not the topic. You're attacking him for something he never said. Which is strange and rude at the same time.
    Last edited by MisterFred; 07-16-2010 at 03:06.

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