The Trouble in Waiting [Concluded]

[Askthepizzaguy]

wh...wh..wh.... where are you going? Don't leave me here all alone when the party is just getting started.

Come back and fight like a man!

[woad&fangs]

Waiting for me to make a mistake? I didn't realize I was under the watchful eye of the Pizzaguy Bureau of Investigation. You may as well admit it, I only appear "scummy" to you now that I'm threatening you. If you and your partner really think that you can win by trying to out-argue me you're welcome to try but I don't think the town is so enamored with you they think you are beyond suspicion.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Waiting for me to make a mistake? I didn't realize I was under the watchful eye of the Pizzaguy Bureau of Investigation. You may as well admit it, I only appear "scummy" to you now that I'm threatening you. If you and your partner really think that you can win by trying to out-argue me you're welcome to try but I don't think the town is so enamored with you they think you are beyond suspicion.

You're only threatening me now because it is convenient.

I find your suspicions of me to be convenient, seeing as they've only shown up now, and only after a dead proven innocent suggested it. You are trying to steal his credibility and use it to gain a bad lynch. But that added credibility is an illusion. You are using the dead as an excuse to vote for me now, and the convenient timing bothers me, especially when one false lynch loses.

In my experience, you would have accused me earlier if you thought I was really scummy. You don't feel confident enough to bring me down without using the credibility of the dead as a crutch.

The argument you just used is a false one, too. It is not a matter of out-arguing you, that doesn't matter. What matters is who is guilty. Your actions denote guilt.

I don't think the town is so enamored with you they think you are beyond suspicion.

This is an appeal to something, and it sure isn't logic. I never said I was beyond suspicion, no one has said that. You're arguing something that exists only as a talking point to make me die, regardless of its non-reality.

You're a scumbag, pure and simple. But please, continue talking, I find this all fascinating.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Vanilla mafia game strategy for woad&fangs:

Round 1: "Random vote: Renata"

This cannot be defined as a suspicious vote by anyone except Renata. Therefore, it is the safest move. It also joined no bandwagon, therefore it attracts no attention.

Split votes for you.

He's dead.

Round 2: Vote: Beskar "admit your guilt!"

"Admit your guilt?" Seems fake to me. Doesn't match the tone of your other posts.

ArpeggiateTHIS votes for you.

He's dead.

Perhaps I fingered your scum buddy, Apreg....

Yeah except you didn't, because they are both dead.

I'm not lurking post.

Adds nothing to the discussion.

Unvote, vote: Arpeg

Following my bandwagon, which is convenient for you because it eliminates the guy that just voted for you.

Next round: Vote Beskar

After he votes to kill himself, you top it on the excuse that he voted for himself, therefore he must be guilty. If so, he would have unvoted himself.

Bad vote again.... but hey, voting for anyone else would look both pointless and suspicious, and we can't have that now can we.

Next round: Dead proven innocent mentions my name as a suspect.

Woad: Care to elaborate?

As if you cared what his reasons were.

I vote for Renata.

Following up on my suspicions from yesterday, based on who was killed.

I'll give you a hint: mafia typically toss their votes on a lot of different people. The logical follow-up on Renata is not usually indicative of mafia.

Opportunistic voting is, though. Such as:

Immediately after I vote for Renata, you vote for me.

Tactical.

• A dead innocent finds me suspect.
• I'm voting for someone else... now, I have made someone else find me more suspicious. Renata is more likely to vote for me than not.
• You don't have to explain your vote.
• The timing is perfect. I die, you win.

A perfect storm of scummy!



Your arguments since then have stunk like a pile of rotting corpses. Which is fitting, considering you're responsible for one.

[woad&fangs]

O, but you sure tried to imply that you were above suspicion. In fact, the entire crux of your argument so far has been that "I am innocent so obviously that other guy is guilty".

As for the accusation that targeting you this round is convenient, I would like to say that my suspicions have been mostly on Beskar and ArpeggiateTHIS. I would have voted for Renata if you hadn't voted first but I decided that rather than blindly follow a dead guy on you on a day where we possibly HAVE to be correct. So, I decided to poke you with a feeler vote and in return I got an OMGUS vote and claims that I'm scum and have been acting scummy the entire time. Its interesting to note that you waited to voice this opinion of me until it was "convenient" for you.

edit: Dang it Pizza, you made a huge post while I was making mine. Now I need to read your new post and respond to that :P

[woad&fangs]

especially when one false lynch loses.

I was going to respond to your analysis of my posting patterns but seeing as it was all poppycock and I'm lazy I'm instead going to comment on this little tidbit that I noticed.

One false lynch only loses if there are two mafia alive. Are you really that sure that we haven't gotten a single one, or was this a slip of the finger on your part?

....unfortunately I don't have the foggiest idea who your partner is

[Askthepizzaguy]

O, but you sure tried to imply that you were above suspicion. In fact, the entire crux of your argument so far has been that "I am innocent so obviously that other guy is guilty".

• No.... that's obviously and demonstrably false.
• Straw Man argument, to boot.

What are you trying to pull? This isn't my first game of mafia, woad.

As for the accusation that targeting you this round is convenient, I would like to say that my suspicions have been mostly on Beskar and ArpeggiateTHIS.

One vote each doesn't make for "most". Also demonstrably false.

I would have voted for Renata if you hadn't voted first but I decided that rather than blindly follow a dead guy on you on a day where we possibly HAVE to be correct.

This is total bull.

Why do you play a game of mafia? To catch the bad guys, or BE the bad guy.

You were FINE with coming up with your own suspects until now, when you'd be held most accountable for them. You haven't been following the dead's suggestions until this moment.

You are trying to act all innocent, "just following suggestions...". Dude, this is the critical moment. You don't blindly follow a dead guy here. You come up with a serious accusation, make a case, do something besides be a freaking welcome mat. No townie acts like this, least of all you. You're not a passive player.... you may not be the loudest, but you're not someone who barely shows up and just does whatever. You are not that bad at this game. You're asking me to believe you're not woad&fangs.

If you coincidentally had the same suspicions, I could buy that. But you didn't, you asked Pinman what his reasons were. Because you needed ammunition to take me down.

You had no case on me because YOU haven't been actually looking for mafia. You've been waiting for someone ELSE to make a bad case you could follow. Like a scum.

So, I decided to poke you with a feeler vote and in return I got an OMGUS vote and claims that I'm scum and have been acting scummy the entire time. Its interesting to note that you waited to voice this opinion of me until it was "convenient" for you.

That's not why you voted for me. That's bull.... you just said that you voted me because a dead guy did. Now, it's a "feeler" vote?

Feel this:

edit: Dang it Pizza, you made a huge post while I was making mine. Now I need to read your new post and respond to that :P

I await your entertaining reply.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was going to respond to your analysis of my posting patterns but seeing as it was all poppycock and I'm lazy I'm instead going to comment on this little tidbit that I noticed.

A real townie would give a hoot and actually respond, scum.

One false lynch only loses if there are two mafia alive. Are you really that sure that we haven't gotten a single one, or was this a slip of the finger on your part?

You're a good enough player to know it is prudent to assume the worst case scenario.

Don't take what is obviously the wisest and most aware town behavior and try to call that evidence of scum. It's poor form coming from someone who can't even construct a case against someone ON THE LAST ROUND OF THE GAME.

....unfortunately I don't have the foggiest idea who your partner is

Humor me. Name names. I want to know who my awesome partner is.

Come up with reasons why we are scum together, too. Or is winning the game as a townie not on your agenda?

I guess you aren't looking for what happens next round, because you know my death ends the game. You're not this lazy, and you're not this bad a player.



@ everyone else:
Lynch this guy.

[woad&fangs]

One vote each doesn't make for "most". Also demonstrably false.
We've had what, three rounds? Considering that, it does indeed make for "most". So it is not, as you claim, demonstratably false.


this is the critical moment. You don't blindly follow a dead guy here. You come up with a serious accusation, make a case, do something besides be a freaking welcome mat.
You mean exactly like what I'm doing now?

edit: As for potential partners, would you like Lurker #1, Lurker #2, or Lurker #3 because they all seem identical to me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

One vote each doesn't make for "most". Also demonstrably false.
We've had what, three rounds? Considering that, it does indeed make for "most". So it is not, as you claim, demonstratably false.

Using that reasoning, and I use the term loosely, I could claim that I have been your main suspect. Because I have the same amount of votes from you as they did.

this is the critical moment. You don't blindly follow a dead guy here. You come up with a serious accusation, make a case, do something besides be a freaking welcome mat.
You mean exactly like what I'm doing now?

Where is your case? You didn't come up with a case before you voted. You waited.... Pinman said he thinks I'm scummy. You want him to elaborate so you can use his case, because you have none.

Then you vote for me, with no other comment.

That's not a case.

And what you're doing now is not making a case on me, but attempting to defend your own actions, which are indefensible.

edit: As for potential partners, would you like Lurker #1, Lurker #2, or Lurker #3 because they all seem identical to me.

What a dodge.


Hand over your fangs, because you're clearly not predatory enough to use them.

[woad&fangs]

Round 1: "Random vote: Renata"

This cannot be defined as a suspicious vote by anyone except Renata. Therefore, it is the safest move. It also joined no bandwagon, therefore it attracts no attention.
Yes, a random vote on day one is definitive evidence that I am scummy :eyeroll:

Split votes for you.

He's dead.
Splits vote was ordained by the Random one. This "evidence" is poppycock.

Round 2: Vote: Beskar "admit your guilt!"

"Admit your guilt?" Seems fake to me. Doesn't match the tone of your other posts.
How does the fact it doesn't match my tone in the rest of the thread make me scummy?
ArpeggiateTHIS votes for you.

He's dead.
Yes, you caught me red handed. I brainwashed the town into lynching a guy who voted for me.
Perhaps I fingered your scum buddy, Apreg....

Yeah except you didn't, because they are both dead.
Yep, I was wrong. It happens.

I'm not lurking post.
Not sure which one you are referring to here.

Unvote, vote: Arpeg

Following my bandwagon, which is convenient for you because it eliminates the guy that just voted for you.
Yes, voting for the guy I thought was suspicious was following your bandwagon. Remember that I thought Beskar and him were the scum. Arp was the more popular choice that day.

Next round: Vote Beskar

After he votes to kill himself, you top it on the excuse that he voted for himself, therefore he must be guilty. If so, he would have unvoted himself.

My reasons for voting him are known. Nothing to see here.

Next round: Dead proven innocent mentions my name as a suspect.

Woad: Care to elaborate?

As if you cared what his reasons were.
It is preferential to barreling in without a clue on an important round.

I vote for Renata.

Following up on my suspicions from yesterday, based on who was killed.
So you claim

I'll give you a hint: mafia typically toss their votes on a lot of different people. The logical follow-up on Renata is not usually indicative of mafia.
However, you know that so it turns into one giant WIFOM.


* A dead innocent finds me suspect. Which is a pretty decent reason to follow up on his suspicion
* I'm voting for someone else... now, I have made someone else find me more suspicious. Renata is more likely to vote for me than not.Irrelavant seeing as I am town
* You don't have to explain your vote. ~Obviously I did.
* The timing is perfect. I die, you win. ~Reverse the I and the you


TL;DR~ VOTE PIZZA

[Beskar]

The Mafia voted for me.

Also, ATPG would have killed Diana himself, in order to fool people which he did by trying to blame me and Renata.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Yes, a random vote on day one is definitive evidence that I am scummy :eyeroll:

THE EYEROLL!!! THERE IT IS!!!

Oh how I've missed you mister eyeroll smiley.... I haven't seen you since every mafia I've ever accused.

Hold on, let me go grab it from Star Wars. Where's Subotan's quote?

"And apparently, ATPG is always right. "- Subotan.

Why is it you mafia always roll your eyes at me? Can you tell me this, because I really want to know. Townies don't roll their eyes at me because when I am wrong, they generally just state it. One or two argue with me defiantly, and some of them kick my butt at arguing because they aren't actually scum. Some knock the wind out of my sails with a single line that disproves everything I just said.

But no, the mafia struggle a bit, and when they get frustrated, it's EYEROLL TIME.

Splits vote was ordained by the Random one. This "evidence" is poppycock.

The point is, he's dead now. I would guess that his voting for you becomes uncomfortable, and so it's best to whack him because it's suspicious to OMGUS and then wagon so early in the game. So, murdering is the simplest choice.

How does the fact it doesn't match my tone in the rest of the thread make me scummy?

Uneven tone is what points out people who are full of poopy. Like you!

Yes, you caught me red handed. I brainwashed the town into lynching a guy who voted for me.

Hi mister strawman!

I was arguing that you were only too happy to get rid of someone who voted for you, so wagoning him was opportunistic.

But no, you'd rather argue against a strawman. Have fun!

Yep, I was wrong. It happens.

You know who is wrong more often than townies? Mafia.

You know who is wrong on the critical rounds of the game, the final rounds? The Mafia have to be wrong on the final round of the game or else they lose.

Who wants to make the wrong vote, and waits for someone else to prompt said vote so they can deny responsibility? Mafia.

Hey, I might be voting for you, but the corpse told me to. Don't blame me!

Yes, voting for the guy I thought was suspicious was following your bandwagon. Remember that I thought Beskar and him were the scum. Arp was the more popular choice that day.

Next round: Vote Beskar

After he votes to kill himself, you top it on the excuse that he voted for himself, therefore he must be guilty. If so, he would have unvoted himself.

My reasons for voting him are known. Nothing to see here.

Your reasons are bogus. You capped him and used his self-vote as the excuse.

It is preferential to barreling in without a clue on an important round.

Why aren't you looking for your own clues, oh woadiest of woads?

Which is a pretty decent reason to follow up on his suspicion

No, it is not. But it does sound like a reason, and a reason is something you desperately need, since you don't have reasons of your own.

Irrelavant seeing as I am town

Then why are you acting like a lying murderous scumbag strawman-using poopypants?

Obviously I did.

Vote: Pizza, followed by blank, isn't a reason.

Reverse the I and the you

"No you!"

Excellent defense, about as excellent as your nonexistent case on me.

TL;DR~ VOTE PIZZA

Yes, look, there's lots of words.

Words hurt brain.

People no like words.

My, pizza is talking a lot. People don't always like that.

Why do in text base game people use words?




Translation: Don't listen to either of us, fellow players, because I'm losing badly! Just vote for Pizza, please? He's annoying with his words and stuff.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The Mafia voted for me.

Also, ATPG would have killed Diana himself, in order to fool people which he did by trying to blame me and Renata. Lynch him.

I'll accept your apology after the game. You're not reading any of this, are you?

[Beskar]

Let's put Pizza and Woad into a room, then bomb it, so they both die.


Okay seriously, I am going to take the gamble, kill Woad, he is most likely the mafia out of the two of them.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay seriously, I am going to take the gamble, kill Woad, he is most likely the mafia out of the two of them.

@woad: I have a dead guy too. My dead guy can beat up your dead guy.



Oooh I just got a neat idea for a game.

[woad&fangs]

Nuh uh! Zombie Pinman totally is better than zombie Beskar! I'm going to sleep now. Hopefully the rest of the living players make the right choice.

[God Emperor]

Finally done with the wall of text
Pizza has one point that seems to be above all other: If he dies, and if he is a town, we lose.
Woad&fangs
If there still occurs two killings the following night, then targeting pizza for the next round seems fair. If only a single kill occurs the next night, the chances that pizza is not a mafia, should be pretty high, and good enough to him go off the hook
Anything wrong with this 'theory'?

[Renata]

Finally done with the wall of text
Pizza has one point that seems to be above all other: If he dies, and if he is a town, we lose.
Woad&fangs
If there still occurs two killings the following night, then targeting pizza for the next round seems fair. If only a single kill occurs the next night, the chances that pizza is not a mafia, should be pretty high, and good enough to him go off the hook
Anything wrong with this 'theory'?

If woad&fangs dies, and is town, we lose. What makes him different from Pizzaguy? Your vote does not follow from your stated reasoning.

[Renata]

vote: askthepizzaguy

Everything you're accusing woad of is something you've done yourself. Your votes have been uniformly (except for this one) opportunistic.

Day One -- jump on the guy who changed his vote and hound him to a lynch. Comment afterward that he was probably a townie because the lynch was too easy. Whoops.
Day Two -- Grab my reasoning against Pinman. When Pinman starts laughing off the bandwagon on him, vote Secura because she said something was "off" (townie, now dead, btw). Later switch again to Arpeg on the basis of a change in tone. Arpeg lynched.
Day Three -- It *must* be either me or Beskar, because split and Diana died. Pinman gets let off the hook of suspicion. Start bandwagon on me, switch to Beskar. That night, Pinman dies -- I'm still here.
Day Four -- And now, day four, when Pinman names you or me, of course it must be me. You've already set it up the day previous. But then woad jumps on you, and you make yet another opportunistic vote change. You only justify your vote afterward, post hoc. And somehow every single thing woad has done all game has a scummy motivation behind it. Even scum aren't that scummy. You're trying too hard.

You do this, Pizza, you hound people to death, and you're damn good at it. Defend yourself now, please and thank you.

[Pinman]

I agree with Renata. I think shes innocent and Pizza is guilty.

[landlubber]

I've seen Pizzaguy as mafia before. He accuses someone, he won't let the idea of them being mafia go, trying to seem like a passionate townie... but then he's mafia.
Vote:ATPG

[God Emperor]

If town loses if another townie dies, then you are right let's remove atpg
Unvote; Vote: Askthepizzaguy

[Death is yonder]

Hmm.

Thermal once told me, you can make a case on anyone if you tried hard enough.

That certainly seems to be the case right now.

ATPG's case sounds too certain and justified, somehow everything that Woad has done is now being portrayed as a strike against him. Imaginary/implausible/minutely possible links everywhere, I'll echo what Renata said and say that you're trying too hard.

Also, if this is just a fishing attempt to see who buys the easy vote (lazy people), I think it backfired rather stupendously, and furthermore, this is rather implausible as a motive because you took it very far, father than needs be unless you were dead serious in your accusations.

Vote: ATPG

Unsure why, but when you talk about how woad wants to get someone lynched so that he can win the game, the same would follow for you, and many others. Townies and mafia alike want to get someone lynched this round, though for different reasons. Therefore, this as a reasoning for woad's supposed "scumminess" is invalid.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hehehe, this is the point where I can say I tried, and I can also say, I told you so.

You guys can never read me correctly without an investigator to help you.

I have some eggs here, so please wash your faces.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I will say this much: The distancing vote between woad and Renata on round one, plus his incorrect vote on me this round, is indicative of their partnership. I would also suggest that it was indeed Renata who killed off Diana and Split, for very smart reasons.

You will all reverse your votes and place them on woad&fangs, now.

[Secura]

I have some eggs here, so please wash your faces.

You could have baked them a nice humble pie, cooked in the Oven of Shame at Gas Mark Egg-On-Your-Face.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hmm.

Thermal once told me, you can make a case on anyone if you tried hard enough.

False logic.

The case isn't what's important, the facts of the situation are. His guilt is what is important.

That certainly seems to be the case right now.

No, it's not.

ATPG's case sounds too certain and justified, somehow everything that Woad has done is now being portrayed as a strike against him. Imaginary/implausible/minutely possible links everywhere, I'll echo what Renata said and say that you're trying too hard.

That's better than not trying at all. I often wonder why I bother, when people don't come up with their own cases ever and just skate through games and then wonder why they lose.

Not you, DIY, but I can certainly suggest God Emperor hasn't put out the effort this time, or at least hasn't shown it.

Also, if this is just a fishing attempt to see who buys the easy vote (lazy people), I think it backfired rather stupendously, and furthermore, this is rather implausible as a motive because you took it very far, father than needs be unless you were dead serious in your accusations.

Incorrect; look at how far I took it against Subotan in Star Wars..... against Psychonaut in Star Wars.... against Andres in Pick your Power.

Do you guys remember how I play at all?

Vote: ATPG

Unsure why, but when you talk about how woad wants to get someone lynched so that he can win the game, the same would follow for you, and many others.

That's not the point. The point is, woad is definitely trying to get someone lynched, but he's basing it off of an erroneous dead guy.

COME ON, PEOPLE, you've been mafia before. Picture this.

It's the final round of the game. You're up against a still fairly large town, and it's a vanilla game. You're worried that accusations against people will backfire. You haven't actually been hunting mafia. So you don't have a case.

Your plan? Wait for someone to make a bad case.

Oh look, a dead guy says that pizza is guilty.... and he just voted for Renata.

Gotcha....

Now Renata, good or evil, will vote for Pizza. With the added weight of Pinman's accusation, the lynch cannot possibly fail. All you have to do is vote for this guy, and the game is over.

How could you, as mafia, possibly resist this move?

Think about it. You're not giving me a fair shake, and you're ignoring what is OBVIOUSLY the scummiest move in the game.

But what seems obvious to me isn't always obvious to others. Just think about it. The game isn't technically over yet.

Townies and mafia alike want to get someone lynched this round, though for different reasons. Therefore, this as a reasoning for woad's supposed "scumminess" is invalid.

Wrong. You're just plain wrong, DIY.





You've looked at it and made a snap judgment, and the judgment is wrong.

Assume that you were right for the moment, and I'm mafia, and I'm about to be lynched.... well you have the votes, yay.

Now, you have the free time to consider, whether or not your assessment was correct. Clear your minds, go back, and pretend you're woad&fangs..... read all of his posts and interactions.... and put yourself in his place. Think of what YOU would do as mafia.

If you do this, I am confident you will arrive at the same conclusion; everything woad&fangs did all game long was based on one thing: Opportunism. Taking out anyone, at any cost, and not having to form his own case on anyone, ever.

He sometimes gave bull spit reasons, but anyone can create a 3-second "this is why" which is a thinly-vieled attempt to cover his tracks.



You have nothing to lose by merely considering my suggestion. Do you guys consider yourselves mafia players, or casual fanboys? This is the big leagues, the vanilla games, where you don't get help. You have to guess based on subtlety, and on psychology, on murder patterns, and on votes. I am even giving you a big hint, this current path loses the game for the town. Consider that I am telling the truth, while you have the time and can afford to, and GO BACK and re-read the thread until you see what I am saying.

Please.

[Pinman]

Guys, this bandwagon on ATPG is huge. Too huge to reverse if we come up with more solid logic later.

I think ATPG is more likely to be guilty at this point, but it would be best if at least some of the votes on ATPG were removed - if you know who cant change your vote later.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pinman is worried that I'll just keep talking and unduly influence people, because I'm too persuasive. (Yeah, look how persuasive I am...) But I admit it.

Therefore, I won't post anymore in this thread, assuming there are some votes on woad to make the game close, and therefore possible for the town to come to their senses and win. I gave my word. You're on your own. Re-think the situation, and give pizza a fighting chance.

Be the pizzaguy. It's your turn to solve one.