The Trouble in Waiting [Concluded]

[Renata]

Finally done with the wall of text
Pizza has one point that seems to be above all other: If he dies, and if he is a town, we lose.
Woad&fangs
If there still occurs two killings the following night, then targeting pizza for the next round seems fair. If only a single kill occurs the next night, the chances that pizza is not a mafia, should be pretty high, and good enough to him go off the hook
Anything wrong with this 'theory'?

If woad&fangs dies, and is town, we lose. What makes him different from Pizzaguy? Your vote does not follow from your stated reasoning.

[Renata]

vote: askthepizzaguy

Everything you're accusing woad of is something you've done yourself. Your votes have been uniformly (except for this one) opportunistic.

Day One -- jump on the guy who changed his vote and hound him to a lynch. Comment afterward that he was probably a townie because the lynch was too easy. Whoops.
Day Two -- Grab my reasoning against Pinman. When Pinman starts laughing off the bandwagon on him, vote Secura because she said something was "off" (townie, now dead, btw). Later switch again to Arpeg on the basis of a change in tone. Arpeg lynched.
Day Three -- It *must* be either me or Beskar, because split and Diana died. Pinman gets let off the hook of suspicion. Start bandwagon on me, switch to Beskar. That night, Pinman dies -- I'm still here.
Day Four -- And now, day four, when Pinman names you or me, of course it must be me. You've already set it up the day previous. But then woad jumps on you, and you make yet another opportunistic vote change. You only justify your vote afterward, post hoc. And somehow every single thing woad has done all game has a scummy motivation behind it. Even scum aren't that scummy. You're trying too hard.

You do this, Pizza, you hound people to death, and you're damn good at it. Defend yourself now, please and thank you.

[Pinman]

I agree with Renata. I think shes innocent and Pizza is guilty.

[landlubber]

I've seen Pizzaguy as mafia before. He accuses someone, he won't let the idea of them being mafia go, trying to seem like a passionate townie... but then he's mafia.
Vote:ATPG

[God Emperor]

If town loses if another townie dies, then you are right let's remove atpg
Unvote; Vote: Askthepizzaguy

[Death is yonder]

Hmm.

Thermal once told me, you can make a case on anyone if you tried hard enough.

That certainly seems to be the case right now.

ATPG's case sounds too certain and justified, somehow everything that Woad has done is now being portrayed as a strike against him. Imaginary/implausible/minutely possible links everywhere, I'll echo what Renata said and say that you're trying too hard.

Also, if this is just a fishing attempt to see who buys the easy vote (lazy people), I think it backfired rather stupendously, and furthermore, this is rather implausible as a motive because you took it very far, father than needs be unless you were dead serious in your accusations.

Vote: ATPG

Unsure why, but when you talk about how woad wants to get someone lynched so that he can win the game, the same would follow for you, and many others. Townies and mafia alike want to get someone lynched this round, though for different reasons. Therefore, this as a reasoning for woad's supposed "scumminess" is invalid.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hehehe, this is the point where I can say I tried, and I can also say, I told you so.

You guys can never read me correctly without an investigator to help you.

I have some eggs here, so please wash your faces.

[Secura]

I have some eggs here, so please wash your faces.

You could have baked them a nice humble pie, cooked in the Oven of Shame at Gas Mark Egg-On-Your-Face.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I will say this much: The distancing vote between woad and Renata on round one, plus his incorrect vote on me this round, is indicative of their partnership. I would also suggest that it was indeed Renata who killed off Diana and Split, for very smart reasons.

You will all reverse your votes and place them on woad&fangs, now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pinman is worried that I'll just keep talking and unduly influence people, because I'm too persuasive. (Yeah, look how persuasive I am...) But I admit it.

Therefore, I won't post anymore in this thread, assuming there are some votes on woad to make the game close, and therefore possible for the town to come to their senses and win. I gave my word. You're on your own. Re-think the situation, and give pizza a fighting chance.

Be the pizzaguy. It's your turn to solve one.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Hmm.

Thermal once told me, you can make a case on anyone if you tried hard enough.

False logic.

The case isn't what's important, the facts of the situation are. His guilt is what is important.

That certainly seems to be the case right now.

No, it's not.

ATPG's case sounds too certain and justified, somehow everything that Woad has done is now being portrayed as a strike against him. Imaginary/implausible/minutely possible links everywhere, I'll echo what Renata said and say that you're trying too hard.

That's better than not trying at all. I often wonder why I bother, when people don't come up with their own cases ever and just skate through games and then wonder why they lose.

Not you, DIY, but I can certainly suggest God Emperor hasn't put out the effort this time, or at least hasn't shown it.

Also, if this is just a fishing attempt to see who buys the easy vote (lazy people), I think it backfired rather stupendously, and furthermore, this is rather implausible as a motive because you took it very far, father than needs be unless you were dead serious in your accusations.

Incorrect; look at how far I took it against Subotan in Star Wars..... against Psychonaut in Star Wars.... against Andres in Pick your Power.

Do you guys remember how I play at all?

Vote: ATPG

Unsure why, but when you talk about how woad wants to get someone lynched so that he can win the game, the same would follow for you, and many others.

That's not the point. The point is, woad is definitely trying to get someone lynched, but he's basing it off of an erroneous dead guy.

COME ON, PEOPLE, you've been mafia before. Picture this.

It's the final round of the game. You're up against a still fairly large town, and it's a vanilla game. You're worried that accusations against people will backfire. You haven't actually been hunting mafia. So you don't have a case.

Your plan? Wait for someone to make a bad case.

Oh look, a dead guy says that pizza is guilty.... and he just voted for Renata.

Gotcha....

Now Renata, good or evil, will vote for Pizza. With the added weight of Pinman's accusation, the lynch cannot possibly fail. All you have to do is vote for this guy, and the game is over.

How could you, as mafia, possibly resist this move?

Think about it. You're not giving me a fair shake, and you're ignoring what is OBVIOUSLY the scummiest move in the game.

But what seems obvious to me isn't always obvious to others. Just think about it. The game isn't technically over yet.

Townies and mafia alike want to get someone lynched this round, though for different reasons. Therefore, this as a reasoning for woad's supposed "scumminess" is invalid.

Wrong. You're just plain wrong, DIY.





You've looked at it and made a snap judgment, and the judgment is wrong.

Assume that you were right for the moment, and I'm mafia, and I'm about to be lynched.... well you have the votes, yay.

Now, you have the free time to consider, whether or not your assessment was correct. Clear your minds, go back, and pretend you're woad&fangs..... read all of his posts and interactions.... and put yourself in his place. Think of what YOU would do as mafia.

If you do this, I am confident you will arrive at the same conclusion; everything woad&fangs did all game long was based on one thing: Opportunism. Taking out anyone, at any cost, and not having to form his own case on anyone, ever.

He sometimes gave bull spit reasons, but anyone can create a 3-second "this is why" which is a thinly-vieled attempt to cover his tracks.



You have nothing to lose by merely considering my suggestion. Do you guys consider yourselves mafia players, or casual fanboys? This is the big leagues, the vanilla games, where you don't get help. You have to guess based on subtlety, and on psychology, on murder patterns, and on votes. I am even giving you a big hint, this current path loses the game for the town. Consider that I am telling the truth, while you have the time and can afford to, and GO BACK and re-read the thread until you see what I am saying.

Please.

[Pinman]

Guys, this bandwagon on ATPG is huge. Too huge to reverse if we come up with more solid logic later.

I think ATPG is more likely to be guilty at this point, but it would be best if at least some of the votes on ATPG were removed - if you know who cant change your vote later.