Oh no...oh please no

[bmer]

So, I'm playing a Baktria game on H/M, it's about 256 BC. I'm not very experienced with EB, so I'm having a bit of a hard time holding the four provinces I have right now (Baktria, Paropamisadai, Aria, Drangiane) against the Seleukids, but I'm managing.

My spies were doing their work in the enemy cities, causing unrest and tying down some Seleukid stacks while the Pahlava (my allies) were doing their fair bit of distracting the Seleukids as well. In the mean time, I built up my cities' economies and maintained a 1 stack army that was divided in two main parts, one part defended Baktria and the other did some running between Aria and Drangiane as needed.

Things were going alright I felt, "I can pull through" I told myself.

Then the Ptolemies made an alliance with the Seleukids.

The Seleukids don't have another major enemy (they currently have cease fire agreements with the Makedons and KH). Pahlava is just plain starting to feed units to Seleukid stacks giving them silver and gold chevrons here and there. My campaign, I sense, is going to start sucking really hard pretty soon.

What do I do?

[Ibrahim]

So, I'm playing a Baktria game on H/M, it's about 256 BC. I'm not very experienced with EB, so I'm having a bit of a hard time holding the four provinces I have right now (Baktria, Paropamisadai, Aria, Drangiane) against the Seleukids, but I'm managing.

My spies were doing their work in the enemy cities, causing unrest and tying down some Seleukid stacks while the Pahlava (my allies) were doing their fair bit of distracting the Seleukids as well. In the mean time, I built up my cities' economies and maintained a 1 stack army that was divided in two main parts, one part defended Baktria and the other did some running between Aria and Drangiane as needed.

Things were going alright I felt, "I can pull through" I told myself.

Then the ******* Ptolemies made an alliance with the Seleukids.

The Seleukids don't have another major enemy (they currently have cease fire agreements with the Makedons and KH). Pahlava is just plain starting to feed units to Seleukid stacks giving them silver and gold chevrons here and there. My campaign, I sense, is going to start sucking really hard pretty soon.

What do I do?

don't worry. simple as that.

have you conquered the Indus river valley area? those are the 4 or 5 provinces towards the edge of the map, near where you are. as long as you have those, and a few seleukid cities, you'll have the money to continue the war.

also, try to get the anemy stacks to fight you on bridges, or in narrow mountain passes; no amount of silver or gold chevrons can help them there.

and you may want to consider editing the post a bit; personal experience has shown that moderators don't like certain words-for good reason.

EDIT: oh, you only have those. your loss; should have stayed allied with AS, and taken the time to conquer the Indus. you can in theory still make it, but it'll be harder to do so.

[bmer]

Okay, I edited my previous post.

Well I didn't remain allied with the Seleukids because in a previous failed campaign, they back stabbed me very early on anyways (within the first 10-15 turns). So in my new campaign, I didn't bother holding on to my alliance with the Seleukids.

Really the problem here is one of diplomacy...how is it that the AI is able to negotiate ceasefires and alliances without much of a problem, while it is much harder for a human player to negotiate successful treaties (let alone maintain them)? Keep in mind that I am talking about an early game situation, where I don't have an experienced diplomat, or gold in the coffers to appease enemies with.

[Ibrahim]

Okay, I edited my previous post.

Well I didn't remain allied with the Seleukids because in a previous failed campaign, they back stabbed me very early on anyways (within the first 10-15 turns). So in my new campaign, I didn't bother holding on to my alliance with the Seleukids.

Really the problem here is one of diplomacy...how is it that the AI is able to negotiate ceasefires and alliances without much of a problem, while it is much harder for a human player to negotiate successful treaties (let alone maintain them)? Keep in mind that I am talking about an early game situation, where I don't have an experienced diplomat, or gold in the coffers to appease enemies with.

forced diplomacy mods can help with that, if its as bad as you say. its also a good idea to try to play factions against one another (which, since you have little money towards the beginning, still requires forced diplomacy).

I'm afraid the AI's unreasonable nature is, otherwise, hardcoded.

[SwissBarbar]

Staying allied to the Seleukids may cause you troubles later. With Baktria you have to take their eastern cities as long as they have no great armies there - meaning at the beginning of the campaing!

Good advice: many, many, many footarchers and huge stone (the greatest ones) walls as soon as possible will make your cities damn hard to conquer

[Ca Putt]

The AI is hardcoded to HATE the player especially when they border you having declared war on a fellow ally is one of the few things that can maintain peace with a neighbor(like you did with the Pahlava).

but look at it that way: you don't have to fight the Saka rauka ... (yet).

[athanaric]

Set taxes to maximum, focus on building paved roads, mines, large mines (especially in Kophen!), paved roads, healers, and paved roads. Oh and did I already mention paved roads?

Good advice: many, many, many footarchers and huge stone (the greatest ones) walls as soon as possible will make your cities damn hard to conquer

Also Baktrian Hillmen, for dealing with the Seleukid phalanxes (from behind) and with the elephants of the Indian Eleutheroi. Peltastai for the same reason.
Use a lot of cavalry, especially Dahae Riders, and later on all types that are available. Arachosian or Dahae mounted skirmishers are especially effective against elephants and heavy cavalry, whereas Dahae Riders are good vs infantry.
Swat their annoying generals ASAP, either on the battlefield or with an assassin.
Use slingers to support your archers on the walls. They are best used against heavy cavalry (Seleukid FMs) or heavy infantry.

[MisterFred]

I sometimes have success building vast alliance webs even on the harder difficulties. Generally it happens because a few AI players are willing to ally with you, and as your alliance web grows in power more and more are willing to do so. For instance when I played my Bosphoran campaign (Pontus abandoning Anatolia) I started by allying with the Getae, as they are bizarrely friendly and reliable neighbors virtually every time I play. Then when AS inevitably declared war on me, I got an alliance with the Parthians and the Baktrians and the Ptolemys, which was easy, as all of them were at war with AS. Then I went through the barbarian lands, and between the Getae and my already strong-looking alliance web, I picked up the Germans, Romans, Lusotann, and Carthage (Aedui and Arveri were either at war with Rome or their vassal). Eventually everyone who was a potential ally was my ally. Then it was just a matter of picking and choosing which to keep as wars broke out across the map.

Now most games don't go like this... but it IS possible. And I didn't offer anything for the Alliances. Just either Alliance + trade rights straight off, or trade rights + alliance a few turns later. Its also usually pretty easy to build up your first diplomat by just agreeing to trade agreements with everyone, giving him a string of easy treaty accepts with no rejections. Luck also helps.

As for peace between Ptoly and AS, well, you may be screwed. This happened to me just when I was FINALLY starting to make real gains in my Saba campaign (around 150). As a result I was forcibly evicted from Mesopotamia and my tenuous gains in Africa were put under severe strain.

[Drunk Clown]

But.. I don't get it, how can you lose? The AI is so stupid that it's just impossible.

With one stack you should at least be able to destroy 5 enemy full stacks (if not more)

[MisterFred]

Well if you're playing Saba and you've installed one of the battle formation sub-mods, its really really hard to beat a full-stack of galatian klerouchs and elite ptolemaic phalanx with only a stack of your own troops, unless you bring elephants. And its really hard to tech up to elephants when the ptolies keep throwing elite stacks at you. Doesn't mean you can lose... but it can be really hard to win. Also, it takes a few EB campaigns before the human player becomes unbeatable. I up-and-up lost my first Baktrian (also first EB) campaign, and my first Pontos and Hai campaigns. For awhile in my KH campaign (second EB campaign) I thought I might have to make a comeback from the islands.

I also prefer to not get the largest possible walls, if I'm trying to be as brutally effective as possible. With the largest walls, you shoot up their least valuable troops, burn some towers, and watch them come back for more the next turn. And if they reinforce the besieging army, it slows works its way up in quality, as the cheaper troops are easiest to kill with arrow fire. And sometimes a fluke will happen and a tower will actually live, and you lose a city.

Wheras on the lowest level of stone walls, with a mixed archer/AP force, you can field the same number of men and obliterate their army thanks to ladders (and towers don't have ballistas). Super-cheap, but effective if you're lokoing for that.