Manuballistas/Gastraphetes

**Callimachus** · 07-16-2010, 07:02

Is it possible that we may see these weapons as part of Romani/Hellene factions? I know that the earliest finds Manuballistas fall out of the EB II historical range (they were apparently an invention of Hero of Alexandria circa 100 CE) but the Gastraphetes falls well within that range being invented in 450 BCE. I think they'd provide a good ranged intermediary in between archers and siege equipment. Maybe add a "terror" element to the weapon.

For those that don't know quite what I'm talking about:

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/war/CatapultTypes.htm

http://www.romanhideout.com/news/2005/20050224.asp

and a video of a test firing of a replica of a Manuballista!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGzYumLxYSI

**abou** · 07-16-2010, 08:39

We don't have any references to it being used in our time frame and so that doesn't speak in its favor. And the gastraphetes is far too cumbersome to be used in the field -- a siege yes, but even then it's limited and efficacy dubious. As it stands, we have a lot of units that we want to see in EB2 and giving up a slot to such a limited-use piece of equipment just isn't practical.

**Iain.** · 07-16-2010, 19:53

You've opened up a real can of worms here, brah.

That question gets asked a lot round these parts.

Abou has already said why, so I won't bother repeating the answer.

**MisterFred** · 07-16-2010, 21:13

It really is rather uncanny. When I actually started paying attention to EB forums, I'm like 'why are these people jumping all over this guy for asking about a Gastraphetes?' And then the posts kept coming. Almost one a week, like clockwork.

**Hax** · 07-17-2010, 00:48

To expand on what abou said, I believe that the use of the gastraphates was limited to mostly the city-state of Syrakousai. It wasn't that widespread.

**Cute Wolf** · 07-17-2010, 16:50

Originally Posted by Hax

To expand on what abou said, I believe that the use of the gastraphates was limited to mostly the city-state of Syrakousai. It wasn't that widespread.

unless Syrakousai was a playable faction, we won't have gastraphates wielding unit

**Hax** · 07-17-2010, 22:36

unless Syrakousai was a playable faction, we won't have gastraphates wielding unit

Even if they would be, it's still highly unlikely that there would be a gastraphetes unit.

**Cyclops** · 07-19-2010, 23:39

Were siege engines used in open battle much in the EB period? I recall Imperial Roman armies used some torsion engines, and just before the EB period there's a reference to a battle between and Phillip 2 of Macedon and I think Phocis where he gets bombed by seige engines in a valley (a really clever ploy) but I'm guessing it happened pretty rarely.

Originally Posted by Hax

Even if they would be, it's still highly unlikely that there would be a gastraphetes unit.

I won't even bother to post my question about elephant-mounted gastraphetes with lorica segmentata for an emergent Gladiator faction then.

**MisterFred** · 07-20-2010, 01:35

Me laughs!

**Ludens** · 07-20-2010, 15:28

Originally Posted by Cyclops

Were siege engines used in open battle much in the EB period?

I am pretty sure it happened rarely, if at all. The Romans had small, light projectile throwers, but the real siege equipment would take too long to deploy and too long to reload. And did they have some sort of ranging device or was it just done through trail-and-error?

**Cyclops** · 07-21-2010, 06:21

Originally Posted by Ludens

I am pretty sure it happened rarely, if at all. The Romans had small, light projectile throwers, but the real siege equipment would take too long to deploy and too long to reload. And did they have some sort of ranging device or was it just done through trail-and-error?

My feeling with the battle Phillip vs the Phocians it was a set-piece: they set up in a valley and he netered through a narrow pass so they prolly had time to set range before the battle. I think the evidence is extremely thin so theres not that much to speculate about. Enough to say engines in battle are very rare and thanks to their cost and strat map slowness its the same in EB.

IIRC modders have tried but its not been possible to add torsion engines etc to the existing range of seige furniture like rams, towers etc. Shame, how good would it be to have an engineer unit or ancillary that lets you build a certain type of torsion engine or catapult-y thing but just for seiges? You could even (perhaps) have a Urban-like ancillary for barabarians offering to build Greek or Phoenecian engines for the less washed factions.