MultiPlayer Foyer

[Swoosh So]

The thing that concerns me more than anything else for STW2 Multiplayer is the current lack of a chat lobby or foyer in the current games. I found napoleon to be a decent game but the lack of a lobby/foyer meant i lost interest in around 2 weeks, the whole experience was just shallow without a proper way to communicate with all the people online.

I really hope that CA when making the big changes to multiplayer dont forget that the game currently is missing the basics, It would be an absolute travesty imo for shogun2 to be a good mp game without a foyer when the implementation of the foyer is so simple.

Looking at all games ive enjoyed over the years shogun, world of warcraft and dawn of war all these games had at least basic chat foyers or in the case of wow every type of chat feature imaginable.

Whats the thoughts of players who plan to play shogun2 multiplayer on this? And has anyone heard anything from ca that i maybe missed about a foyer being added back into the game?

[Swoosh So]

Seems people sit on their hands on the issue, well dont go moaning to ca when they dish out the same crap thats in ntw ie no foyer.

[tibilicus]

I'm sure if there was something the community could do then they would act. The simple truth though is that CA, quite frankly, never listens to the community, even less so to the small Multiplayer community. In the past there's been petitions, written letters and community members even proposing a consultation session. I'm sure that one of the community members even went off to work for CA in Australia, that didn't change anything.

Look at the way CA wont even provide mod support for a game which used to, and still does, have an active moding community. If you look at the up coming Civilization V, Firaxis are bending over backwards to accommodate a moding community as they know it's an integral part of the game. Unfortunately, CA doesn't seem to want to push the boundaries of their games these days. It's probably due to the fact that there isn't really any other big games similar to the Total War series to challenge the series' dominance, and thus we get the same formula over and over again.

I would like CA to listen for once and to pull its fingers out of its ears so that we can have a game which has user as well as developer input. Sadly, CA hasn't done this for a long time and I doubt this title will be any different.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Seems people sit on their hands on the issue, well dont go moaning to ca when they dish out the same crap thats in ntw ie no foyer.

What you expect us to do when CA doesn't listen to us even when we do act?

[Swoosh So]

Well that is not true, theres many things that have been discussed on the org that ca have added to their games. multiplayer has not been the focus in the past and multiplayer suggestions have generally been ignored yes. They say they have a nice focus on mp this time round and i guess we have to take that at face value.

I cant speak for everyone but topics i brought up in the past that have made it into the game, although i cant say it was because of my topic in particular as many people ask for the same things. Maybe ca dident read them but had plans for them anyway who knows.

Multiplayer campaigns (many people suggest this over the years) This was a massive campaign by the community over the years, imo its great that its implimented but just with the wrong title. Hopefully with the release of shogun2 if it has community tools like a mp chat foyer these can really come to the fore and we can get clan campaigns on the go.

Ability for reinforcements to be controlled by the ai, previously they were queued and leaked onto the battlefield as the spots became available.

Also i remember opening a discussion on being able to have the ai control reinforcements but with the player giving general orders to the reinforcing army like players did with their team in unreal tournament - a ca employee was involved in the thread and liked the idea and its made it into the later games. this thread was opened way before the ai even controlled any armies as reinforcements.

Many players on the org asked for units to be more expensive when buying many of the same type, this was also implimented in the game.

Wasent it the community that pressed ca to add replays into the game?

I rmember some guy opening threads about generals having special abilities way before the kingdoms expansion was released

We asked for the community vs the developer matches which ca showed up for (not the prettiest of battles but they were facing amp and co ;) ! ) Dident we highlight a certain cavalry bug in these matches that was later fixed?

Im sure theres many examples of single player features that were added into the game when all ca focussed on was single player, and yes they were frustrating times for people who wanted only the multiplayer. Noones going to be forced to buy the game, i myself skipped empire totalwar which normally i would have bought due to lack of a foyer. But after playing napoleon and seeing the series start to get back on its feet i cant sit idly by and watch ca ruin it by releasing it with no mp chat foyer so ill speak my piece and hope its heard. Maybe they even have plans to impliment it already who knows. Maybe they just need some feedback from the community.

Would be nice if we could dig out some of these threads, i notice that the history of posts does not go back to the beginning somehow but im sure people would be surprised to see many of the things posted here that have made it into the series.

Its too early to say if ill buy shogun2 but i do want it to be a sucess and i do want the return of a multiplayer foyer which i know if done right will get the multiplayer community buzzing again, i know ill be buzzing if its reimplimented and ill use my energies to get things going in the multiplayer side of the game.

Its a poor games company that says right we want to make a large focus on the multiplayer and doesent listen to the people interested in multiplayer.

[Swoosh So]

Took some digging but here we go, will add more as i find them.

2001 While reinforcements were just units that entered battle after 1 of your units on the field died 1 unit at a time and were then controlled by the player, there were no ai assist armies in 2001!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...crusaders-IDEA

Giljay joins the discussions on reinforcements

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...88-Ai-generals

Quote from CA

Sadly, although we may collectively think it's a good idea (I haven't asked around yet), it almost certainly comes too late for inclusion in the addon.

However, it's been noted in our file of good ideas for the future...

Later added yes its not a major change but it did improve an aspect of the game that was lacking through community discussion.

Very early discussion but certainly not the first of a multiplayer campaign, lets not take for granted this special feature that ca have added to the game, once the 'right game' comes out this could be huge.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...layer-Campaign

CA vs the community multiplayer matches

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ommunitys-best

Long winded post including the following

Currently we have rally which is nice but i would personally like to see another option added perhaps a faction ability, this ability would have area effect near the general unit such as HOLD THE LINE! slight increase in morale for surrounding units for a short duration of time with a 3 minute cooldown.

So example Roman Generals: Hold the line! slight increase in morale for a short duration (area effect) 3 minute cooldown.
Gaul Generals: Attack! slight increase in attack stat for a short duration (area effect) 3 minute cooldown.

Abilities like warcry were introduced in rome but i feel the general unit gives it more focus and adds to the tactical options in the game and with a 3 minute cooldown it must be well timed for good effect and adds more flavour to each seperate faction.

Again before kindgoms was announced and generals could only rally with no special generals in game

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...roving-mp-mtw2

Im just one player and im sure there are tons of others that posted their own ideas that were implimented into the totalwar series or the same as mine above, but in 5 minutes ive compiled a short list from my post history thats made it into the game and im sure many other posters can do the same, remember the focus was on singleplayer and the singleplayer ideas were implimented no matter how you look at it. Lets hope with the multiplayer focus we can bring some ideas to the table. But not discussing them will get us nowhere that i can guarantee.

[tibilicus]

Changes yes, but no major ones. The core game formula has been no different since Rome and the Multiplayer has in many ways actually regressed as the series has gone on. The Multiplayer campaigns also took years to implement when it really shouldn't have. CA has always had big studios backing it and from my view point, it took a good 4 years to implement something that surely could have been implemented the first time of asking? I'm pretty certain our very own Myrddraal arrived at the idea of a multiplayer campaign way before CA did and the community itself had PBM campaigns before that.

I do hope, for this site as well as my own personal sake that this game does well, I have however been continuously disappointed by CA and have no reason to think this game will break the cycle. If CA presented evidence that it will and genuinely reached out to the community, I would be happy. I feel this wont happen however so feel there is little we can do.

[Swoosh So]

Thats right the community did have pbem games before the release of the hotseat campaign by ca, its barely known but myself and amp had a full running campaign in rome vanilla using cheat and console commands including online battles - the only thing we couldent really replicate was the casualties ported back into the game but we worked out a system for this.

But the mp campign was a major change and yes it maybe took too long to impliment but imagine a shogun 2 of a mp quality of the first with this new feature and a rome2 with a full mp campaign then things get exciting.

Bring back the chat foyer ca and lets get things moving...

Updated org thread ideas that ca have implimented post

[Crazed Rabbit]

I remember saying before Empire that a lack of a chat foyer wasn't a big deal.

I was wrong. It would improve the game and increase the bonds of the community. But I don't think CA will pay attention. And I don't care really, since I swore off TW games after Empire. Their contempt for modding has only strengthened my resolve.

CR

[Togakure]

I'd hazard to guess that they (CA) harken back to all the complaints about a-holes in the foyer, of which there were many. Many of us have thick skins and just dealt with it, but do recall there was a lot of frustration expressed over behavior in the foyer. I'd hazard to guess again that maybe the departure from the foyer structure was an attempt to address this--one that may have reduced/eliminated some of the problems inherent in a foyer, but introduced other, bigger problems. Hence, the complaints now about the lack of a foyer by many and the appeal to return to that system. If I were in CA's position, I'd be thinking: "How can we give them what they want (a foyer) and avoid all the bull crap we had to deal with before?"

Just my two koku. Because of the radical drop in quality of MP, I haven't played online since MTW/VI, so I have no experience with their new way of doing things. But I do trust the opinions of the "veterans" who share their thoughts here.

[Sp00n]

Lets just hope we get one :P

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Lets just hope we one :P

Hope = Wishing


Grandmother on my dad side use to tell my dad

"&*&* in one hand and wish in the other"

[AMP]

STW2 should have a foyer. I mean every RTS that i've gotten into had one which is a lot btw. It's like something standard to have for people to hang out at while they aren't playing or waiting for a match to finish etc..

They say the multiplayer is getting a lead role this time and for them to leave out a foyer for the game would seem just... screwed up.

If people don't like some of that chat that goes on.. well you shouldn't be connected to the foyer chat logging into the game only when you select to join a chat lobby.

The last RTS I played over a yr was World In Conflict and we used the lobby and being able to make other chat rooms with p/w for tournaments.

A foyer is a must I say. :)

[Gregoshi]

I'd hazard to guess that they (CA) harken back to all the complaints about a-holes in the foyer, of which there were many.

Wasn't there one really serious issue that happened in the chat lobby - I can't remember if it was with STW or MTW. But I remember there was a lot of discussion about it here - with some CA folks too(?) - and how to handle it. I vaguely recall some people suggesting that CA have chat lobby moderators as a result. I wish I could remember the details but I do recall it was a very big deal.

Regarding the need for a lobby, how does match making work with RTW, M2TW and ETW? I never ventured online with RTW and I didn't get M2TW or ETW (decrepid computer syndrome).

[pevergreen]

Matchmaking in RTW was through Gamespy, I believe it was the same for M2TW. You'd go online, you'd have your lobby, a list of games and the details about them. If it was not identical to yours (modded), it would be red instead of yellow/gold.

ETW brought steam. That brought region games. I cannot play with anyone outside of Australia and a few surrounding countries, unless I can join off a steam friend.

What it meant for me is that I'd be lucky to have more than 5 people online in my area. Once you were in game, you could chat, but...it was dead.

[Tera]

Just remember that the only reason CA made an extremely raw form of multiplayer into Total War games (and usually disregarding it once the game shipped) was to get critic reviews scoring over 90%, because without a decent MP component, it would have been hard for them to get those scores.

Now that they're publicly boasting about how great Shogun2 MP will be, I expect some serious moves forward.

[t1master]

remember when they muted chat in rtw? they never looked back.

[Togakure]

I think this may be the incident which Gregoshi-san is vaguely recalling. There was a major public outcry here when that happened. What was/were the incident(s) that led to that extreme action?

[Major Robert Dump]

While I prefer a foyer/lobby as long as there is an associated IGNORE function, and especially a foyer with sub lobbies, I think those days are long past.

There is too much liability in having a lobby. Parents may be less likely to allow their underage children to play. Puritans and those easily offended my shy away from MP so they don't have to hear naughty words. Overly paranoid parents and politicians fear pedo bear will mack on their little Jimmy

[Tera]

Japanese history attracts a different crowd than the more mainstream Ancient Rome or Napoleonic eras. Shogun 1 had a mature, adult following which I'm sure will be returning with the release of STW2.

So hopefully it will be an opportune moment to reintroduce chatting liberties.

[Swoosh So]

There must be a mp foyer its the basics, ignore functions are adequate all they have to do is make an ignore - ignore every username associated with that account. Chat filters are fine for bad language.
Would be nice to see an early statement from ca as to whether or not were getting a chat lobby so we can decide if we want to follow this games progress or not. If there isent one included im jumping off completely, this is the alamo as far as im concerned for totalwar i bought ntw but skipped empire, ntw held my interest for about 1 week due to lack of a chat lobby and despite being a decent totalwar game was a complete waste of money due to lack of a lobby for me. Im not even going to bother with shogun if there is not a chat lobby included. That said i do hope ca turn it around and put back in the most basic of functions. Somone stated (think it was tera) that they talk up mp and include it to get over 90% review well lets see. Its no wonder gaming magazines are going bust when they simply gloss over multiplayer flaws pc zone = byebye and good riddance pc gamer next?

[NagaoKagetora]

Japanese history attracts a different crowd than the more mainstream Ancient Rome or Napoleonic eras. Shogun 1 had a mature, adult following which I'm sure will be returning with the release of STW2.

So hopefully it will be an opportune moment to reintroduce chatting liberties.

I dunno Tera, original Shogun MP did have a generally more mature following but it was in a game which overall had a small following. And it had its fair share of asshats amongst that community, I don't have to think very hard to remember quite a few individuals who delighted in trying to ruin others gaming experience.

Id like to see them implement an ingame foyer also but they need to do it right and put the effort in with the correct functions/tools or it will be a waste (and a nightmare with the huge following STW2 will attract).

[Swoosh So]

Tbh i dunno whos playing ntw if theyre mature or not cause you never get to speak with your opponent.....

[t1master]

or your teammates...

[Orda Khan]

Gregoshi, I may be wrong but I'm guessing you mean the time that chat was closed down due to racist remarks?

[Swoosh So]

Lol orda i really hope that was not the case, why the hell would they not just ban the player instead of shutting down the whole foyer??

[Tera]

Whatever reason it was Swoosh, it just shows CA didn't really care about multi player back then, perhaps it was easier/more economical to just remove the foyer altogether.

I mean, let's face it. 200-300 MAX people playing at the same time. That is a big NOTHING. Millions play other strategy games like StarCraft. With those numbers, it's not worth employing three moderators on shifts for the foyer.

[Gregoshi]

Gregoshi, I may be wrong but I'm guessing you mean the time that chat was closed down due to racist remarks?

That may be it Orda.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Lol orda i really hope that was not the case, why the hell would they not just ban the player instead of shutting down the whole foyer??

I remember that. CA didn't even respond to our requests to get the ban removed.