Love Parade Berlin

[Fragony]

This is bad.

edit: and not Berlin

[Ser Clegane]

Link

[Skullheadhq]

Damschreeuwer 2.0?
When there is a litle danger, people will even kill eachother just to get out themselves, people are just animals in that respect. Rational thinking seems to die in that sort of situations

@Cleg Only links I can find are either Dutch or German. Nothing is known now, except that 10 persons died.

[Ser Clegane]

Not sure if a "clown" smiley is really appropriate here

[Fragony]

Might be an attack people have burning wounds, 15 dead comfirmed.

[Ser Clegane]

Might be an attack people have burning wounds, 15 dead comfirmed.

I haven't seen anything about burning wounds in any of the German News sources. Cuurently it looks "simply" like a panic in a crowded area (a tunnel)

[Fragony]

I haven't seen anything about burning wounds in any of the German News sources. Cuurently it looks "simply" like a panic in a crowded area (a tunnel)

Looks like that is what happened. Horrible rip victims.

[Hosakawa Tito]

15 Killed in Panic. A terrible tragedy. Condolences to Germany and those poor kids.

[Husar]

Yes, weird day, I was working but some of it actually came through to me, there was a mother who couldn't pay and told me he daughter was in hospital in Duisburg, so she gave me her ID card but then she wanted a receipt, too. When I told her I can only give receipts after people paid, she threatened me with physical harm etc.
I can kinda understand a mother but I cannot just let people go like that, it was a bad day overall.
Sorry for those who lost someone and I'm not sure who of the people I know might have been there.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Very sad.

God I hate crowds. They're dangerous.

Yes, weird day, I was working but some of it actually came through to me, there was a mother who couldn't pay and told me he daughter was in hospital in Duisburg, so she gave me her ID card but then she wanted a receipt, too. When I told her I can only give receipts after people paid, she threatened me with physical harm etc.

Wait, did the mother claim her story was related to what happened in Berlin? Or did you just have to get that off your chest?

[Fragony]

19 dead, if you look at these images I am kina all 'wth were they thinking'

http://www.spitsnieuws.nl/archives/b...choqueerd.html

People need oxygen you idiots a tunnel like that doesn't have enough of it.

Pretty nasty imagery but it looks like most kept their cools

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/1052...oveparade.html

Really sad day for our neighbours. I understand that panic can't be prevented but this was a disaster in the making.

[CountArach]

Tragedy

Mass-crowded concerts in tunnels are a moronic idea.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Thousands of people allowed to flow unrestricted into a confined space like that is a recipe for disaster. What should have been an entertaining day of music and fun with friends turns into a death trap for some. Positional asphyxiation is a gruesome way to die. Hopefully, those in charge of this event learn from this and develop a better way to control such a crowd in future events.

My step-daughter is attending an outdoor concert at Darien Lake today. Her mother and I really didn't need to see this news from Germany.

[Husar]

Wait, did the mother claim her story was related to what happened in Berlin? Or did you just have to get that off your chest?

She claimed her daughter was in hospital in Duisburg, that's where the love parade was (not Berlin).
And I had to get it off my chest, too.
She could have gone without the receipt but said then we might want 60 instead of 30€ from her afterwards, basically accused us/me of trying to trick her, so her thoughts were not just with her daughter, but also with her money, which was also disturbing(and we don't do that anyway).

[Fragony]

Thousands of people allowed to flow unrestricted into a confined space like that is a recipe for disaster. What should have been an entertaining day of music and fun with friends turns into a death trap for some. Positional asphyxiation is a gruesome way to die. Hopefully, those in charge of this event learn from this and develop a better way to control such a crowd in future events.

My step-daughter is attending an outdoor concert at Darien Lake today. Her mother and I really didn't need to see this news from Germany.

Not thousands, 1.5 million people. Two ways out that tunnel being one of them. What the hell were they thinking.

[Skullheadhq]

What the hell were they thinking.

$$$

[Fragony]

Love parade is free. But this is a major organisation fail, surprising coming from Germans. How did they expect emergency to get either in or out. In the middle of the summer ffs. People can get overheated or dehydrated, people can overdose. They expected 250.000 wut? It's the Love parade they should have at least expected a million. Did they haul water for only 250.000? Maybe what happened was the best possible scenario, and we should be glad only 19 people died.

[Skullheadhq]

Love parade is free. But this is a major organisation fail, surprising coming from Germans. How did they expect emergency to get either in or out. In the middle of the summer ffs. People can get overheated or dehydrated, people can overdose. They expected 250.000 wut? It's the Love parade they should have at least expected a million. Did they haul water for only 250.000? Maybe what happened was the best possible scenario, and we should be glad only 19 people died.

30 degrees + no water + no chance to get it in that crowd could have lead to hundreds of dead.

[Fragony]

30 degrees + no water + no chance to get it in that crowd could have lead to hundreds of dead.

Abso lutely so. Already heard there is some massaging going on, files being deleted, someone screwed up badly. The more I hear the more amazed I am, especially since it's all so well taken care of in Berlin. This was a deathtrap pure and simple. That bloody tunnel being the most amazing of everything, low roof, no ventilation, thousands and thousands of people moving through they could have suffocated.

[rory_20_uk]

Seeing a picture of the grounds did strike me that there was a large area with people in surrounded by very solid walls, and then a small outlet with very solid walls.

In the event of problems the system had no ability to expand the area, merely concentrate pressure in the tunnel.

Considering the numbers, 16 deaths was relatively light.

[Husar]

Abso lutely so. Already heard there is some massaging going on, files being deleted, someone screwed up badly

Afaik the plans for the event have already been confiscated by the authorities, there's a lot of blame going around, from what I read on Facebook one of the organisers said one day prior to the parade that probably nothing will happen or something like that. Sounds like a typical case of underestimating the dangers and yes, that, unfortunately, happens in Germany, too.

Considering the numbers, 16 deaths was relatively light.

19 deaths but yes, somewhat of a low number considering how many people attended. I heard in Essen 3 people died but apparently mostly due to their own fault, when it was here it was open from all sides, a few road closures around the inner city of course but you could walk freely through the whole inner city and approach the event from all sides, why they decided to herd people into a corral in Duisburg I don't know.

[Fragony]

Afaik the plans for the event have already been confiscated by the authorities.

So the authorities didn't feel like taking a peek in advance, hard to believe. This would (or should) never have been aproved by the fire department, police and emergency services. In Berlin you can aproach the festival from all angles and can even find some nice and quiet, enough routes for said services, watercannons ready to provide some refreshement should it be needed, first aid stations everywhere, almost everything that can go wrong is taken into account.

FFS http://www.upvideo.com/upvideo_video...tkuRsriLNpHOOw

[Andres]

It seems like some are trying to escape their responsability...

There are allegations that police may have tried to cover up what happened. SPIEGEL ONLINE has learned that one office of the Federal Police erased all its documents about the Love Parade -- including orders, reports from the scene and maps -- from the computers and email accounts of its officers. "A big vacuum cleaner came round very quickly," said one officer, who believes it may have been part of a deliberate coverup.
Such reports raise questions about whether the comprehensive investigation that German President Christian Wulff had earlier announced would really take place.


A spokesman for the Federal Police said late on Sunday there had been no instruction to remove data from computers. "All documents about the operation are available and can be requested and read," he said.

Link.

[Husar]

So the authorities didn't feel like taking a peek in advance, hard to believe.

No, the city/state/whatever attourney didn't really have to take a look in advance, but now he wants to because he is going to sue some people.

[Skullheadhq]

It seems like some are trying to escape their responsability...

It's not the fault of the local government but of the event organisers. The local government didn't organise it AFAIK.

[Ser Clegane]

It's not the fault of the local government but of the event organisers. The local government didn't organise it AFAIK.

Actually local authorities are very much responsible, or do you believe that they are not involved in the planning and approval process for an avent of such scale?

[HoreTore]

It's not the fault of the local government but of the event organisers. The local government didn't organise it AFAIK.

In communist countries like Western Europe, the difference between the two is marginal at best.

[Fragony]

Actually local authorities are very much responsible, or do you believe that they are not involved in the planning and approval process for an avent of such scale?

^- that

[Louis VI the Fat]

Those videos that emerged are incredibly disturbing. What on earth were they thinking? I'm surpirsed not more people died.

This entire event had disaster written all all over it.

She claimed her daughter was in hospital in Duisburg, that's where the love parade was (not Berlin).
And I had to get it off my chest, too.
She could have gone without the receipt but said then we might want 60 instead of 30€ from her afterwards, basically accused us/me of trying to trick her, so her thoughts were not just with her daughter, but also with her money, which was also disturbing(and we don't do that anyway).

Ah, now I get it. I thought the love parade was in Berlin, and wondered what Duisberg had to do with any of it.

I think the woman was just trying to take advantage of you and the tragedy. Frauds know no shame. Call me a cynic, but I've lived in cities for too long, heard too many stories by people who all happen to be a victim of whatever the latest high profile tragedy is. Sadly, they undermine solidarity and the natural tendency of good people to help each other out. They prey on it, what to you is a an act of humanity, is to these people a sign of your stupidity, and if you are stupid, you can be taken advantage of because it's your own fault, so they feel perfectly entitled to, without the least bit of shame. They are dishonest to such an extent they are genuinely insulted when you don't believe them.
And what's with her nonsense about physically threatening you, and asking for you to trust her but her not willing to trust you? Pft.

[Fragony]

Aww the major has solemny claimed that they gave out the permit just that day. That is of course what you do when you expect at least 250.000.00 people I guess. Guy, step down and commit suicide.