Was thomas jefferson an idiot?

[Hosakawa Tito]

hmm, I think idealism is going to be a whole kettle of fish. It's not a word that makes it easy to think. When people say idealist they sometimes mean that the person is a visionary, and they will do something great in the face of the cynicism and pessimism of others. But sometimes the person is unrealistic, naive, and maybe irrational and that their ideas would do much more harm than good. Because some ideals are false and some are true. The colonists idea that they could govern themselves without a monarch was true. But the idea that they only needed a weak federal government was false.

So what does it really mean when you guys say "but jefferson was an idealist" in response to the authors suggestion that he supported things he shouldn't have as a result? I don't get it. Having a dream or idealistic vision is far from inherently good. I mean, washington had a vision of america becoming a strong and united nation. In fact when he's said to be pragmatic what that really seems like to me is that he kept his eye on the goal and didn't get too distracted by the things that jefferson and hamilton were duking it out in the newspapers over. He freed his slaves in his will too. Isn't all that being more of a visionary?

Having ideals, having confidence in them, sticking by them, that's all null. What's important is how true they are.

Nah, how reasonable it is for the person to have that as an ideal is what's important. Which I would have to read more about jefferson to judge.

I'm just back from a vacation trip to Virginia, and we spent a day touring Monticello. A very interesting day indeed, and I highly recommend it to anyone. Jefferson was an idealist, true, but he had to live in a pragmatic/practical world, so his idealism and practical needs often clashed. Most plantation owners inherited big debts along with the family plantation and Jefferson was no exception. Farming is a tough business that is at the mercy of the weather and wildly fluctuating market prices, and back then there were no "crop insurance subsidies" or pensions for those in politics. The labor intensive nature of running a financially successful large plantation required the use of slave labor, so despite the his ideals of slavery = bad, the financial practicality of the institution for plantation owners obviously benefited them and took precedence. Like many plantation owners, Jefferson died in debt, and his property, including most of the slaves had to be sold off piecemeal by his daughter to pay his creditors. I believe that of the 200+ slaves he owned, only about 5 were actually freed upon his death.

Fortunately, Commodore Uriah Levy purchased Monticello as a summer retreat, and his son preserved/restored the place. It was eventually purchased by a private non-profit group which converted it to a museum, and has been buying back the original surrounding properties. There is a graveyard for Jefferson and his descendents on the grounds, and when we were there they had just buried another relative. Sasaki , if you ever get the chance go see Monticello.

When I say Jefferson was an idealist, I simply mean that he put ideals above practicality, which makes for some decisions that in hindsight could be viewed as "stupid" or "idiotic".

From what I've learned of Jefferson I believe you got it backwards. Like many of the Founders, Jefferson often put practicality above ideals.