Has anybody in history found a counter to the Hammer-and-Anvil?

[Hooahguy]

Hammer and anvil? In paintball?
Easy!
when the hammer part of the plan comes into action, bend part of your forces back to move with the hammer to then envelop the hammer.

[Centurion1]

In acient times? Counter hammer strike. As well as hit and run tactics so the hammer has nowhere to fall.

In our modern warfare without set piece battles the hammer anvil tactic is obsolete large scale because force redistribution is lighning fast.

[HoreTore]

In acient times? Counter hammer strike. As well as hit and run tactics so the hammer has nowhere to fall.

In our modern warfare without set piece battles the hammer anvil tactic is obsolete large scale because force redistribution is lighning fast.

You mean like how we never establish a fire-base and then send some forces to sneak around the flank and catch the enemy in a cross-fire....?

[Prussian to the Iron]

you mean like this?


1.XXXXXXXXX-Anvil-XXXXXXXXX
EEEEEEEEEE-Enemy-EEEEEEEEE

HHHHHHHH-Hammer-HHHHHHH



2.XXXXXXXXX-Anvil-XXXXXXXXX
EEEEEEEEEE-Enemy-EEEEEEEEEEEEEE
HHHHHHHH-Hammer-HHHHHHH EEE
EEEEE-Counter-Hammer-EEEEEEEEEEE



??


and as odd as it sounds, yeah, it worked fairly well in paintball, just instead of melee, suppressing fire is used to pin down the enemy, while a quiet, small flanking action takes place. being unnoticed is vital to the flanking, as their position can be easily called out and stopped in the open. but once they crawl up the flank and get behind the enemy, as long as they get up to the very back and make sure nobody is behind them, they can easily hit the backs of the exposed enemy, pinned down.


i actually did this in a 2v2, which was interesting. you know you have a kickass plan when two 15 yr olds beat an active duty marine and a retired marine, and that only due to a genetic condition, who is still working for NCIS.

[Hooahguy]

Yes, something like that, but I have my ambushing force set up before they can actually hit me from behind, so my decoy force wont have to deal with enemy from behind and in front. So my men are set somewhere to the far left/right.
It works because they arent expecting a counter to the all-mighty hammer and anvil.

[Megas Methuselah]

you mean like this?


1.XXXXXXXXX-Anvil-XXXXXXXXX
EEEEEEEEEE-Enemy-EEEEEEEEE

HHHHHHHH-Hammer-HHHHHHH



2.XXXXXXXXX-Anvil-XXXXXXXXX
EEEEEEEEEE-Enemy-EEEEEEEEEEEEEE
HHHHHHHH-Hammer-HHHHHHH EEE
EEEEE-Counter-Hammer-EEEEEEEEEEE



??

Yes, something like that

[Prussian to the Iron]

which makes sense; after several google pages, I've yet to find a historical occurence where it was ever defeated.

[Megas Methuselah]

Yeah, even the Canadians couldn't counter it. A battle-ready flying column was routed by a Cree and Assiniboine force less than 1/4 of its size.

Stupid idiots.

[Jolt]

In modern tactics (Especially in paintball), hammer and anvil don't make much sense as both sides don't have a formation to stick to and therefore can easily move around. A more normal tactic these days is a standard envelopment and crossfire.

[Prussian to the Iron]

Yeah, even the Canadians couldn't counter it. A battle-ready flying column was routed by a Cree and Assiniboine force less than 1/4 of its size.

Stupid idiots.

and since when did we expect much more from the Canadian military? theres a reason they speak French...

In modern tactics (Especially in paintball), hammer and anvil don't make much sense as both sides don't have a formation to stick to and therefore can easily move around. A more normal tactic these days is a standard envelopment and crossfire.

you would be surprised. from an overview standpoint, as a commander, it wouldnt seem logical with such small units. But it actually does when you're there on the ground.


another tactic i used to its extent during that day was Spotting. there was a line of trees nearby, with a clearing on the other side, basicaly invisible to the enemy. crawled right up there and called out their positions, til one of them rushed me while I had all of 5 rounds left. woulda got him too....

[Ironside]

2.XXXXXXXXX-Anvil-XXXXXXXXX
EEEEEEEEEE-Enemy-EEEEEEEEEEEEEE
HHHHHHHH-Hammer-HHHHHHH EEE
EEEEE-Counter-Hammer-EEEEEEEEEEE
EEEEE-Conuter-Counter-Hammer-EEEE

Ahh, good old MTW flanking. I've even seen another double-layer on that sandwish.

In general, the main weakness is the splitting up of your forces. If your hammer gets delayed long enough (in old times this could simply be by tougher terrain) or is properly counter-attacked and the anvil is slow, then your opponent can crush one of the sides before the other can properly engage.

In modern tactics (Especially in paintball), hammer and anvil don't make much sense as both sides don't have a formation to stick to and therefore can easily move around. A more normal tactic these days is a standard envelopment and crossfire.

That flanking is a sort of envelopment from one side. If I get the tactic properly, it's flanking with the anvil as an distraction, so when the hammer comes, the opponent lack cover from the flanking side and is easily killed before they can react properly.

Counter measures would be a rear guard and avoiding to get all pinned down (aka they can fairly easily disengage). 1-2 people is enough to disrupt the flanking and the mobile unit can then move to either assult the anvil or the hammer.

And that 2vs2 is a good example on what morale influence the tactic have. If it's 2vsX it's hard to counter against and hard to know that you aren't outnumbered (it really shines in 2vs1).