A letter to CA: Release of the source code

[Lysimachos]

I believe the impact of modding is regularly overestimated. To my knowledge Sega doesn't release their sales figures, but I'm positive that the vast majority of buyers never even enters a community where mods are distributed and an even greater majority never plays a single mod. I know, EB has impressive download figures, but we can savely assume a) that many downloaders have downloaded more than once or twice and b) that a huge percentage of RTW-mod-users has tried EB at one point or another, as it clearly is one of the most popular ones.

As for the production cost, you can get blanks at retail for less than 0,20 € a piece, bought from the producer it's even less and I don't think putting that software on the disc is such an expensice endeavor. I believe, after the development costs are earned back, even a 5 € copy earns the publisher a profit margin other trades can only dream of.

It's not like I wouldn't want them to release the source code, I just can't believe Sega (and to my understanding they would be the ones to decide, not CA) would do that in, say, the next decade or so.

[Skullheadhq]

I believe the impact of modding is regularly overestimated. To my knowledge Sega doesn't release their sales figures, but I'm positive that the vast majority of buyers never even enters a community where mods are distributed and an even greater majority never plays a single mod. I know, EB has impressive download figures, but we can savely assume a) that many downloaders have downloaded more than once or twice and b) that a huge percentage of RTW-mod-users has tried EB at one point or another, as it clearly is one of the most popular ones.

As for the production cost, you can get blanks at retail for less than 0,20 € a piece, bought from the producer it's even less and I don't think putting that software on the disc is such an expensice endeavor. I believe, after the development costs are earned back, even a 5 € copy earns the publisher a profit margin other trades can only dream of.

It's not like I wouldn't want them to release the source code, I just can't believe Sega (and to my understanding they would be the ones to decide, not CA) would do that in, say, the next decade or so.

At least we can try, if we don't we'll never get it.

This is a flawed argument. It's like giving a thief your money, because other thieves have already stolen a part of your money. It doesn't really make sense.

No, there are keygens on the internet anyway for all possible patches, releasing the source code will not change this in any way.

[siegfriedfr]

Didn't the EB team already got rebuffed on the subect with a not-so-nice legal threat, "if"?

[Skullheadhq]

Didn't the EB team already got rebuffed on the subect with a not-so-nice legal threat, "if"?

What are you talking about?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Two things: first of all I doubt CA actually owns the exclusive rights to the source code of RTW: I doubt SEGA would be comfortable without actually holding the rights to the works they publish.
As for the money: €5,- includes a lot of profit. Take for instance the CDs every commercial Linux company and their dogs appear to be selling: in the example that is 100 CDs for £80,85 including shipping. That means £0.81 buys you a CD and delivery, and presumably it still includes a profit margin.

[Skullheadhq]

So, no-one is interested in trying?

[siegfriedfr]

So, no-one is interested in trying?

To the best of my knowledge during my lurking on various TW related forums, the TW community (might be the EB team itself) approached CA at some point on such matter and got a legal threat in response.

TW games are lackluster titles developped for quick money-making.
I didnt play the vanilla campaigns more than once or twice before being bored. Whereas i've played dozens of EB campaigns and i still want more.

CA simply doesn't need the net to buzz about how bad their titles are, while people working for free beat them square in content-making.

[Zarax]

Biggest con:

GFX aside, most game mechanics are relatively simple implementations from a coding standpoint.
If this happens, once the community gets well acquainted with the code it would take less than one year to code in M2:TW-like features and in a couple year it would reach a good enough gameplay that it would represent a serious menace to commercial sequels.

Two examples: Descent: Freespace 2 and Jagged Alliance 2.
Try the open source versions of the games and tell me square that the level of refinement reached in the gameplay can be matched by a company on a budget

[Lysimachos]

So, no-one is interested in trying?

Well, I'm distantly familiar with an attempt to make Atari/Firaxis release the source code for their Civilization III (which, btw. is three years older than RTW). I think the people who spearheaded that attempt have put quite some effort in it and ended with a lot of disappointment and frustration. So, maybe it isn't worth it, especially considering how forthcoming CA has been toward their modding community in the latest titles.

Biggest con:

GFX aside, most game mechanics are relatively simple implementations from a coding standpoint.
If this happens, once the community gets well acquainted with the code it would take less than one year to code in M2:TW-like features and in a couple year it would reach a good enough gameplay that it would represent a serious menace to commercial sequels.

Two examples: Descent: Freespace 2 and Jagged Alliance 2.
Try the open source versions of the games and tell me square that the level of refinement reached in the gameplay can be matched by a company on a budget

This is true. For every company, there is a point where more effort doesn't equal more sales and at that point they usually have to stop. Dedicated Fans don't have that limit and thus may be able to achieve something greater than any company would be willing to.

[Gaius Sempronius Gracchus]

Ok, so here's a slightly alternative idea to this. Talking about indirect profits might not be such a strong argument, and - much as Europa Barbarorum is a work of art, the team responsible for it has expanded and spent many, many man-hours putting together its sequel, Europa Barbarorum 2 (which many of us are looking forward to, I believe..)

Perhaps what might be of more use would be a letter requesting some form of limited coding release of aspects of the M2:TW engine. The people to ask, of course, would be the team themselves, as to what aspects of the coding would be most useful to them (perhaps with some input from the community). CA woyuld then release limited coding to members in the team who could then alter the coding. Or, they request certain alterations in the specific codes. This is where it gets tricky. They then give that altered coding back to CA and recognise their rights to it. In order to download EB2 one would need this altered coding, which they could sell (for a reasonable fee) as a download. Thus, they see a direct profit.

There would be, of course, questions about the status of the mod (it wouldn't, in effect, any longer be free). It rather depends upon how much the EB community are willing to fork out, and whether the modding team are willing to give up the independence of their work... just a thought.