-- no mods to make the Mongols realistic, in-universe? They're TOO TOUGH!

[KuriousJorj]

So recently returned again to MTW2... Playing as HRE, on Medium. Having a blast. Ruling Europe.

Then the friggen Mongols invade Russia. And I'm holding Kiev. Had 3-4 fully upgraded, top-tier mixed unit stacks waiting for them. (and lots more en route)

For crissakes!!!

My hardened steel blades can't penetrate their leather armor.
Their wooden arrows shatter my plate steel armor.
Their Calvary slam straight into fully upgraded Pike militia w/o a scratch.
Every one of their units fights to the very last man.

ENOUGH! I can't take it anymore! I've beaten 4-5 of their stacks, but they got at least 6 more. THIS IS NOT ENJOYABLE!


Every stack of theirs I beat takes at least 1/2 of mine. (I already had 52 provinces, so just gave up, sacked Rome, and 'won' the game)

I've looked and cannot find a single mod anywhere making the Mongols more realistic (ie, not invulnerable supermen)

Help?

[Bilgediver]

Its that silver and gold chevronned units. I think it was a way to make the Mongols more of a challenge. The only reason you were able to do something against them was because you PREPARED for them. You expected their arrival. I'm not sure much of Europe truly expected the Mongols (and Genghis really was a friggin military genius, or so I've heard).

Anyway as the HRE, why didn't you have quite a few Pavise Crossbowmen in your armies? Those crossbows CAN puncture them with its armor piercing bonus.

That's why I just gave up Kiev when I played as Hungary. I pulled back to the river crossings and just kept killing them at the river crossings (as they were bound to do). Eventually they only have a few armies left and just Kiev

[_Tristan_]

Yep, the trick with the Mongols is never to go 1v1 against them but choose battles to fight to your advantage.

River-crossings are the major points you should look for (and bring as many Xbows and artillery as possible...). Use the bridge to bottle-neck them and fire away...

Defending sieges against them can also be a good way to fend them off. The Mongol cavalry loses one of its most fearsome capability in city streets or below walls : maneuverability...

For more advice, use the search engine and you'll find a few thread related to ways of defeating the Mongols...

They're tough for sure but not unbeatable... (as they were meant to be...). And I think you still manage quite well against them... You're scoring victories nevermind the odds !!

[KuriousJorj]

Thanks for the feedback gents.

Yeah, I've seen a thread or two on strategy vs the Mongols...

I actually kinda "gave up" on the HRE (all I was gonna do anyhow was defeat the Mongols then take a few more provinces before retiring them) and started a new campaign as Venice, as I've never played as them before. I'll be sure to get Kiev and be ready at the bridges... Though damn Turkey is gonna make me fight, which means I'll probably end up have to deal with the Timurids as well in anatolia.

Something I noticed both this play-through, and recalled from way-back-when, is that both the Mongols and the Timurids seem to utterly ignore most of the AI and go completely out of their way to seek me out LOL!

[Bilgediver]

You know the way they go is weird sometimes. When I played as Hungary, I was pushing east against Russia when the Mongols showed up, they moved north of the Black Sea. When I played as Russia they went through Asia Minor, on the south side of the Black Sea. I guess its just sporadic.

Venice is fun! I love how they are so spread out at the start, I viewed them as a serious challenge (plus you're one of the factions that can get cardinals early, converting Orthodox Byzantines to Catholicism). In the middle game they have some of the best units, Pavise Crossbow Militia, Venetian Heavy Infantry, Venetian Archers.

[Bilgediver]

If you use the right army you can. As Hungary I went all Pavise Crossbowmen armies and was able to devestate them. I'd lose maybe about a quarter of my army to almost their entire army, mostly due to lancer charges. I would space them in the checkerboard formation, to allow for "low angle" direct shots with the crossbow (kills better).

[KuriousJorj]

Playing as Venice, I've not had less than 4 nations attacking me, and have had 8 enemies (counting Rebels) for the latter half of the campaign.

The Mongols entered NE of Kiev, then turned around, at least for now. IDK where they went.

Also, managed the ol' "kill an official" tactic by forcing a Turk Diplomat (or Merchant ?) into a square w/o movement, then moved my combat units into his square... it killed him. (forgot that would happen).



I tell ya, every single faction, ones that have hated each other since they crawled out of the slime, have joined forces just to oppose me. Somehow, I'm beating them back. The Mongols have arrived, yet I'm still using tier-2 units, cause I've not been able to advance due to constant warfare.

Good thing the Mongols turned around.

[A Nerd]

I defeated stack after stack of Mongols that were attacking the same castle over and over again. Put an end to their rampage of the eastern part of the map. The timurids moved thru the turks territory doing nothing and went straight for Constantinople (which I held as the French) and they were a pain to get rid of. Must have lost several stacks of my own getting rid of them. I haven't played as the turks or egyptians yet because I am afraid of fighting the Mongols and Timurids when they are fresh and my armies/infrastructure are underdeveloped!

[Nelson]

The issue I have with Mongols is the way their stacks clump together. It’s hard to engage just one army at a time and fighting several results in way too many troops in the battle for my machine to handle gracefully. What I get is an 8000 man slideshow.

[where's yur troosers]

The clumping does make it more of a challenge, not that a challenge is unwelcome. In my current game as Byzantium (H/H) the Mongols eventually took Kiev from the Russians in about turn 118. I was expecting the usual break up of their forces and was looking forward to introducing them to my cannon towers at Isai and, if necessary, Bran (that is if they managed to force the nearby bridges in the face of a couple of stacks I had guarding them).

But no - for once they have stayed clumped around Kiev. Clearly these are new peaceful Mongols who, now they have their homeland, simply wish to be left alone. Clearly I cannot have that so have had to send one of my "defend a bridge" stacks to them - the indignity!

I did manage to lure them a little way from their city by stationing an army on the river crossing north of Kiev. I had not been paying enough attention as my army was rather light on holding infantry (just 1 unit of that most excellent of Byzantium units - the spearmen and 2 dismounted lancers). I wiped out the first and 2nd stacks thanks to massed guard archers and a remarkably effective catapult, with a general and 3 vards charging into any breaches in the line.

However when the Mongols decided to throw another full stack in my direction in the same turn at a point where I had no infantry left and my guard archers were at 2 thirds strength I decided it was time to save and go to bed. The trouble is that even if I somehow manage to throw this army back there are still 2 other full stacks in range. Do I keep on fighting to inflict as many casualties as possible or retreat with what is left.

[Guiscardo]

Mongols tough? pfui. Playing as England, I,ve had no great problems with them....usually encounter them up by the Baltic, so have castles at Hamburg, Stettin & magdeburg to whack them from.

It's the snecking Timurids I can't hack, whatever I try I go in with a two to one advantage and still get minced. I am really not convinced by by cannon-mounting elephants, and deeply resent having to deal with elephant troops in the frozen north!

[PrestigeX]

I've been playing the darth mod, which I prefer to all the others because it basically feels the same as vanilla with alot of the improvements you'd want.

the pike units actually work, they don't drop their pikes ! That will help fighting the mongols, most especially when they attack a city and your garrison.

I usually find that with the Mongols being so damned difficult, it merely adds more of a challenge. I usually find with mongols, unless you are defending a city, that you shoulddn't even bother with infantry units in a field army. My armies to defeat mongols are purely archers and cavalry. Expect to lose the first few battles, but your aim is the Phyrric victory - try not to focus on winning the battle but to rid them of their numbers.. so even if you lose 600 men in battle, but you've taken down 400 of theirs - rejoice, victory is near =)