-- no mods to make the Mongols realistic, in-universe? They're TOO TOUGH!

[Bilgediver]

Its that silver and gold chevronned units. I think it was a way to make the Mongols more of a challenge. The only reason you were able to do something against them was because you PREPARED for them. You expected their arrival. I'm not sure much of Europe truly expected the Mongols (and Genghis really was a friggin military genius, or so I've heard).

Anyway as the HRE, why didn't you have quite a few Pavise Crossbowmen in your armies? Those crossbows CAN puncture them with its armor piercing bonus.

That's why I just gave up Kiev when I played as Hungary. I pulled back to the river crossings and just kept killing them at the river crossings (as they were bound to do). Eventually they only have a few armies left and just Kiev

[_Tristan_]

Yep, the trick with the Mongols is never to go 1v1 against them but choose battles to fight to your advantage.

River-crossings are the major points you should look for (and bring as many Xbows and artillery as possible...). Use the bridge to bottle-neck them and fire away...

Defending sieges against them can also be a good way to fend them off. The Mongol cavalry loses one of its most fearsome capability in city streets or below walls : maneuverability...

For more advice, use the search engine and you'll find a few thread related to ways of defeating the Mongols...

They're tough for sure but not unbeatable... (as they were meant to be...). And I think you still manage quite well against them... You're scoring victories nevermind the odds !!

[KuriousJorj]

Thanks for the feedback gents.

Yeah, I've seen a thread or two on strategy vs the Mongols...

I actually kinda "gave up" on the HRE (all I was gonna do anyhow was defeat the Mongols then take a few more provinces before retiring them) and started a new campaign as Venice, as I've never played as them before. I'll be sure to get Kiev and be ready at the bridges... Though damn Turkey is gonna make me fight, which means I'll probably end up have to deal with the Timurids as well in anatolia.

Something I noticed both this play-through, and recalled from way-back-when, is that both the Mongols and the Timurids seem to utterly ignore most of the AI and go completely out of their way to seek me out LOL!

[Bilgediver]

You know the way they go is weird sometimes. When I played as Hungary, I was pushing east against Russia when the Mongols showed up, they moved north of the Black Sea. When I played as Russia they went through Asia Minor, on the south side of the Black Sea. I guess its just sporadic.

Venice is fun! I love how they are so spread out at the start, I viewed them as a serious challenge (plus you're one of the factions that can get cardinals early, converting Orthodox Byzantines to Catholicism). In the middle game they have some of the best units, Pavise Crossbow Militia, Venetian Heavy Infantry, Venetian Archers.

[Bilgediver]

If you use the right army you can. As Hungary I went all Pavise Crossbowmen armies and was able to devestate them. I'd lose maybe about a quarter of my army to almost their entire army, mostly due to lancer charges. I would space them in the checkerboard formation, to allow for "low angle" direct shots with the crossbow (kills better).

[KuriousJorj]

Playing as Venice, I've not had less than 4 nations attacking me, and have had 8 enemies (counting Rebels) for the latter half of the campaign.

The Mongols entered NE of Kiev, then turned around, at least for now. IDK where they went.

Also, managed the ol' "kill an official" tactic by forcing a Turk Diplomat (or Merchant ?) into a square w/o movement, then moved my combat units into his square... it killed him. (forgot that would happen).



I tell ya, every single faction, ones that have hated each other since they crawled out of the slime, have joined forces just to oppose me. Somehow, I'm beating them back. The Mongols have arrived, yet I'm still using tier-2 units, cause I've not been able to advance due to constant warfare.

Good thing the Mongols turned around.

[A Nerd]

I defeated stack after stack of Mongols that were attacking the same castle over and over again. Put an end to their rampage of the eastern part of the map. The timurids moved thru the turks territory doing nothing and went straight for Constantinople (which I held as the French) and they were a pain to get rid of. Must have lost several stacks of my own getting rid of them. I haven't played as the turks or egyptians yet because I am afraid of fighting the Mongols and Timurids when they are fresh and my armies/infrastructure are underdeveloped!

[Sebastian Seth]

Mongol Infantry with 3 silver chevrons = 13 attack (8 ranged) and 18 defence
Mongol Heavy Cavarly with 3 silver chevrons = 10 attack (8 ranged), 4 charge, 17 defence

They arent that bad... The real problem is the 8-10 dread generals leading them.

[KuriousJorj]

Well, I'm somewhere around turn 105... the Mongols never did re-enter the picture.

I've actually had NINE factions constantly at war with me since forever. (and this after eliminating Hungary).

I could take all of the Turk's lands, but fear taking the brunt the Timurids. Then again, the AI will probably ignore common sense, not even touch the Turks, and do what it wants, ie come straight for me wherever I am.

One thing I don't miss about this game (besides all the calvary charge issues) is this nonsense of catapults REFUSING TO FIRE!


Man, is that frustrating!

[Beggarman]

I haven't played as the turks or egyptians yet because I am afraid of fighting the Mongols and Timurids when they are fresh and my armies/infrastructure are underdeveloped!

I can't speak for the Egyptians(the utter lack of quality infantry through-out the first 50 turns or so bothers me to no end. And no, Saracen Militia don't cut the mustard), but my experience with the Turks against the mongols has been fairly mild. The one thing to remember when you kick off a Turk campaign is that You are the epi-center for the Mongol Invasion: they will, more likely than not, be knocking at your door first. So you have to move swiftly and take over pretty much the entire middle-east.

It's not difficult, as you can often get Acre by turn 15 or so. They idea is to spam out Ottoman infantry and rely on the numerous Rivers to stop the mongols. Around turn 70 or so, you need to have your house settled(Egyptians conquered, Bizzies on their heels) so you can devote your energy to the mongols.

My current Turk game is on an indefinite break due to hardware constraints, but the only problem I've had is that I bottled the Mongols up in Armenia(the mountain valleys inbetween Adana and Tblisi), and they refuse to face any of the full stacks I have deployed against them. They did Take Tblisi and whatever the city nearby were, but they sacked and moved on, so I just retook each of those settlements. The biggest problem I've had is forcing them to engange me.

Antoich and Iconium should be the two cities you upgrade your Barracks all the way, for access to those insanely good Jannisarry Archers. 4 units of Dismounted Sipahi or Janissary Heavy Infantry will generally cover your anti-lance duties. EVERYTHING else should be Janissary Archers or Otto Infantry. The Janissarry Musketeers are useful too, but I find the stakes of the Archers to be invaluable for protecting your squishies. Not that Otto infantry are really "squishy".

And once you take over the middle east, Turks have sooooo much money that you can afford to keep 4-6 full stacks hanging around. I haven't had much success with using Cavalry armies as the turks, as Sipahi(Archers or Lancers) get murdered by the Heavy Horse Archers and Heavy Lancers. But, I also haven't brought a full stack of'em against the mongols.

The Egyptians shouldn't have a hard time with the mongols: Mameluke Archers with their maces can go toe-to-toe with the Heavies, and your Mamelikes and Royal Mamelukes should be able to out fight the Heavy Lancers. The lack of solid infantry archers in comparison to the turks might hurt, but I think that only means you'll need to rely on your excellent mamelukes, rather than trying to ape the Turkish approach.

But there's one thing to remember: you don't have time. You need to hurry as fast as you can to take the Middle east, or by the time the Mongols show up, you'l lbe fighting the other Middle-East faction and probably some europeans. And that will get you killed.

[Adelaide]

When I first encountered the Mongols they showed up to the east of Damascus with 7 full armies, led by 7-10 star generals. I was attacking them with Feudal Knights, Knights Hospitaller and a lot of Armoured Sergeants which did not work so well because I lost a lot even though I reduced their numbers!

Then I started building a lot of assassins and kept attacking their generals which was tough because mostly it didn't work but it's worth it if you can kill a few of them. Eventually I killed off all of them but my losses were big and they sacked Antioch too, but I took it back later.

Later on, when they came with their second wave with only 4 armies I had armies with Scots Guard, Aventurier, Noble Knights, Dismounted Noble Knights and Armoured Sergeants and managed to beat them easier than the first time.

I also had Trebuchets and threw fire balls at them, not sure if it was worth it but it was fun! :)

PS. I have still not been invaded by the Timurids and wonder what I should build to encounter them. I am thinking Pikemen, Scots Guard, Lancers / Chivalric Knights and some sort of cannons, maybe Serpentines? Any suggestions? :)