Wikileaks reveals identity of Afgan informants

[miotas]

The military is as much to blame as is the law enforcement agency that has someone killed under its jurisdiction.

Think it through.

The informant situation is probably more like if the police have an informant but they let it get out and the informant is killed. Who's to blame?

Even journalists should take some responsibility, like blotting out names before publishing them so that people and their families don't get killed.

Of course, the military has a leak and that's not good. Of course, a journalist has every right to take advantage of it to publish a good story and to bring out "the truth". But he has to do so with responsibility. That is all. His neglect (or did he do it on purpose? It's not that hard to replace a name with X. And it doesn't take more than 2 brain cells to realise that publishing those names might bring those people in danger.) brings the lives of people in danger.

And he doesn't even say "sorry". Au contraire...

Just passing the buck, if anyone is to blame I say it is the original source, not the end result. The government is pissed and they want a scapegoat.

[Skullheadhq]

The informant situation is probably more like if the police have an informant but they let it get out and the informant is killed. Who's to blame?

Wikileaks of course!

[Andres]

The informant situation is probably more like if the police have an informant but they let it get out and the informant is killed. Who's to blame?

Your analogy doesn't work. It would be better if you said "a police officer told the story to a journalist. The journalist then published a very juicy story, but he forgot to leave out the name of the informant, who is now dead."

Who's to blame? The police officer leaking the information? Yes, he carries part of the blame. But is the journalist innocent? He could have published his juicy story without publishing the name of the informant who is now dead. Don't you agree that he carries at least part of the blame?

Surely, it's not too difficult to understand where exactly wikileaks made a mistake?

[Skullheadhq]

Surely, it's not too difficult to understand where exactly wikileaks made a mistake?

The part where they didn't went through 91000(!) pages to blot out all the name while not releasing 15000 (!) where there are more names.
The documents are benificial for society who was served lies and propaganda about the Afghanistan War since 2001, a few more days and the Netherlands is out of the ****hole that is Afghanistan. This sheds a whole new light to our national political debate where we can debate about the facts instead of about the lies from Washington. Luckily that Dutch Labour part let the cabinet fall for this massacre that is Afganistan, and now we finally know it was justified.

[Andres]

The part where they didn't went through 91000(!) pages to blot out all the name while not releasing 15000 (!) where there are more names.

How did they know what was in those documents if they didn't read it themselves first?



Aren't journalists supposed to read the information they gather before publishing it, let alone writing conclusions based on the information they gathered?

EDIT: so, if I would give wikileaks a list of my groceries and tell them it's evidence that there have never been men on the moon, they would publish a big conspiracy story with my grocery list in attachement as "evidence"?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The documents are benificial for society who was served lies and propaganda about the Afghanistan War since 2001, a few more days and the Netherlands is out of the ****hole that is Afghanistan. This sheds a whole new light to our national political debate where we can debate about the facts instead of about the lies from Washington.

What did you learn from the documents that wasn't available elsewhere? How many have you read so far?

[Skullheadhq]

What did you learn from the documents that wasn't available elsewhere? How many have you read so far?

That Dutch soldiers shot down 12 civilians and killed 4, that's what has been found so far. Don't forget that they are there for an 'Opbouwmissie (Constuctionmission)' for aid to the country, we're not at war, and this debunks this.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

That Dutch soldiers shot down 12 civilians and killed 4, that's what has been found so far. Don't forget that they are there for an 'Opbouwmissie (Constuctionmission)' for aid to the country, we're not at war, and this debunks this.

from a quick check of wiki:

Since NATO-ISAF took over command of the south on 31 July 2006, British, Dutch, Canadian and Danish ISAF soldiers in the provinces of Helmand, Uruzgan and Kandahar have come under almost daily attack. British commanders say the fighting for them is the fiercest since the Korean War, fifty years ago. BBC reporter Alistair Leithead, embedded with the British forces, called it in an article "Deployed to Afghanistan's hell"[20]

Because of the security situation in the south, NATO-ISAF commanders have asked member countries to send more troops. On 19 October, for example, the Dutch government decided to send more troops, because of the many attacks by suspected Taliban on their Task Force Uruzgan, which makes it very difficult to complete the reconstruction work they came to accomplish.

...

Dutch ISAF forces have, for example, used military force to protect eradication units that came under attack.

During June 2007 a Taliban offensive and a Dutch counterattack proved to be the heaviest fighting in Uruzgan province since ISAF extended its Area of Responsibility to the south of Afghanistan. A large part of Task Force Uruzgan's battlegroup took part in the Battle of Chora.

So, what did you learn from the documents that wasn't available elsewhere? How many have you read so far?

[Skullheadhq]

It was common knowledge it wasn't a reconstruction mission but a military intervention, only the politicians desperatly clinged on that they were constructing, doing good! The fact that they murdered 4 civilians will only increase political opposition so next sunday we'll be out, permanently.

The Dutch army (Landmacht and KNIL) has a huge track record of killing civilians, only this time they couldn't outsource it to the Serbs.

[Andres]

That Dutch soldiers shot down 12 civilians and killed 4, that's what has been found so far. Don't forget that they are there for an 'Opbouwmissie (Constuctionmission)' for aid to the country, we're not at war, and this debunks this.

a) To inform the Dutch people about that event, was it necessary to publish the names of the Afghan informants and bring their lives in danger?

b) my previous question: did wikileaks read their own information before publishing it or not?

- if the answer is yes, then they brought the lives of those people in danger on purpose. Nobody in his sane mind believes they "forgot" to blot those names out before publishing or that they "were not aware of the possible danger" this could cause for the individuals involved;

- if the answer is no, then wikileaks' credibility is worth zero. No journalist worthy of the name journalist publishes stuff he hasn't checked and doublechecked for himself first.

[Skullheadhq]

a) To inform the Dutch people about that event, was it necessary to publish the names of the Afghan informants and bring their lives in danger?

No

b) my previous question: did wikileaks read their own information before publishing it or not?

Partially, and no-one in any government has claimed that the info or the reports are false, so what value you give to their credibility doesn't matter, not even the governments doubt it , and it is their info.

[Brenus]

“How about names, name of the father, village they live in...?”
I haven’t all the documents but I understood it was SITREP, Report on Situation.
So, I can’t imagine somebody giving this kind on info on this kind of communication.

I don’t think it is wise to give this kind of information (if they were published) but the newspapers have to do their jobs. As far I understood, the raw documents were sold to 3 main newspapers, so it is up to the journalists to publish and to do what they want to do.

In another hand, I doubt the Taliban being so powerful than they can retaliate with so much efficiency. If they are, it is time to bring the boys back home, man.

[Brenus]

Taliban “hunting down informants”: And you all go for it…
Do you really think the war is lost? That the Taliban can do want they want to whom they want?
I give credit to the Taliban this: their PR is excellent. And thanks to people like some here, they spread the idea of their invincibility and their power even if they never de facto won a war.

“How can he sleep at night?” You can see how when you read: “may already have blood”…
Dramatisation is an art in Propaganda war.

As far I know these documents are not high secret, but the first level secret. So I doubt you would have the name of the 2nd in command of the 9th Taliban Military Zone who is in fact a Secret Agent informing NATO…

I read a second document concerning the French: The first document was showing a possibility of war crime at maximum and bloody blunder at minimum in French troops shooting in a bus full of children (The Guardian : "French convoy shoots 8 children on bus" 02/10/2008).
Thanks to Wikileak we now know it was 2 mini buses, which integrated themselves in the military convoy against all rules, ignored the visual signals from the Troops so the French soldiers shoot in the air then at the ground and a ricochet injured 1 child.

We learn that one helicopter was hot down by missile, missile apparently sent few years ago by the US during the Soviet War. Fact that our media didn’t mentioned but hardly a surprise for who follow the conflict and had even a little knowledge of the Russian War thanks to Osprey books.

“So, what did you learn from the documents that wasn't available elsewhere? How many have you read so far?”
That is the point. Operation Hard Wake UP conducted by the 13 RDP (French Special Forces Regiment) and Gendarmerie was publicised by the French Army itself (even the Special Forces are officially not in Afghanistan as the French are supposed only train the Local Army and Police…. Right…).

I am sorry but I see in these attacks only a massive artillery barrage (smoke and explosive) against Wikileak on alleged moral grounds (he gives the name of the future victims) but fortunately and hopefully baseless just an attempt to have the site close.
Now, these attitude and comments are playing in the Taliban hands.
It gives them nice tools to discourage any collaboration with the Allies Forces as we (Allies) will give the names and they will be killed.
Taliban commanders are seeing this with glee… I would if I would be one of them. Like in Vietnam, the defeat of my enemy will come when I will succeed to convince him he lost.
And comments like the ones I read here tell me they are not far to reach this level.

As noticed but Andres and previously point out, these documents were sold to 3 major media. Not available to every body. So the Taliban won’t be able to see the names if there are some…

[Andres]

Just passing the buck, if anyone is to blame I say it is the original source, not the end result. The government is pissed and they want a scapegoat.

Fair enough.

Both are to blame.