Results 1 to 26 of 26

Thread: German Question

Threaded View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #19
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    2,132

    Default Re: German Question

    Okay, so I was originally torn up as to which of the following would be the proper hierarchy for German auxiliaries:

    1)
    Future
    Modal
    Perfect
    Passive

    2)
    Future
    Perfect
    Modal
    Passive

    The new hypothesis is that the order is as follows:

    3)
    Future
    ----Modal A
    Perfect
    ----Modal B
    Passive

    This predicts that the future will always occur higher in the structure than any other auxiliary, and the passive will always occur lower. Modals and perfective auxiliaries may occur in either order relative to each other, but the difference in ordering will imply a difference in meaning. It would still be very unlikely, of course, to find all four types of auxiliaries in the same clause. Looking through Centurio's suggested examples for various combinations of auxiliaries (post #10), everything seems consistent with this.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Sentence 1: Der Euro muss eingeführt worden sein
    ----Modal
    ----Perfect
    ----Passive

    Sentence 2: Der Euro muss eingeführt werden
    ----Modal
    ----Passive

    Sentence 3: Er sagte, dass der Euro eingeführt worden sein muss / müsse
    ----Modal
    ----Perfect
    ----Passive

    Sentence 4: Sie müssen den Euro eingeführt haben
    ----Modal
    ----Perfect

    Sentence 5: Der Euro wird eingeführt werden müssen
    ----Future
    ----Modal
    ----Passive

    Sentence 6: Der Euro muss (bereits) eingeführt gewesen sein
    ----Modal
    ----Perfect
    ----Passive? Another Perfect?
    (I'm not yet familiar with this exact construction. I'm used to the plusquamperfect or past perfect involving a preterite form of sein along with a past participle. Here it looks like we've got the infinitive of sein followed by the past participle of sein followed by a past participle. I'm guessing the influence of the modal required the first sein to be in infinitive, making a preterite form impossible, but I couldn't have predicted the result. I'm also unclear as to whether the two stacked sein's mean plusquamperfect, passive, or both. Regardless, it doesn't seem to contradict the above hierarchy)

    And for Ser Clegane's mega-sentence with all four auxiliaries: Der Euro wird eingeführt worden sein müssen
    ----Future
    ----Modal
    ----Perfect
    ----Passive


    One other question this raises for me is whether it's ever possible in a German sentence to have two different modals, one in each of the possible modal slots. I suspect it's not, but it would be very intriguing if it is.

    Ajax
    Last edited by ajaxfetish; 08-02-2010 at 07:08.

    "I do not yet know how chivalry will fare in these calamitous times of ours." --- Don Quixote
    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO