Historians: which language has served you best?

**Louis VI the Fat** · 08-01-2010, 05:12

For Mediæval European history I'd go with Latin. Latin was the written language for most of the period - Abélard and Héloise even wrote their private correspondence to each other in Latin. Then there is the problem that what was written in the vernacular is barely recognisable as the modern languages. So even if you would speak French or German, the sources will be in Middle French or German - compare Geoffrey Chaucer for a taste of the effect. On top of all that, there is the problem that neither modern language was standardised. All that great French literature is in Occitan, which is not the basis of modern French.

For secondary sources however, French is excellent. France was a demographic heavyweight in the Middle Ages, central to the European Middle Ages. Consequently, there is a wealth of mediæval research published in French.

Either modern language does have the advantage of being a living language. You can watch some movies, read some books, travel around, study abroad for six months, get a foreign girlfriend. It's all slightly more fun than the mostly esoteric ability to read Latin.

**jabarto** · 08-01-2010, 05:45

Well honestly, I'm getting some pretty mixed information in my inquiries on this matter. THe only thing that seems to be unilaterally agreed upon is that history PhD's are useless. And I can't get into an HVACR program either, because the damn things fill up so quickly.

I've had enough for now. I'd welcome any more advice from anyone reading this, but I think I need to take a break for a little while or I'm going to get depressed.

**CountArach** · 08-01-2010, 06:19

Originally Posted by jabarto

Well honestly, I'm getting some pretty mixed information in my inquiries on this matter. THe only thing that seems to be unilaterally agreed upon is that history PhD's are useless. And I can't get into an HVACR program either, because the damn things fill up so quickly.

They are only useless in a real-world application sense, and even then that is only assuming you go into some non-history based field. There aren't many people willing to go for a PhD in History because of this perception and as such if you are good enough you have a good chance of being accepted into Academia. If you don't want to go into Academia, then you might want ot rethink the PhD idea. However, as with all liberal arts degrees you end up with very important analytical skills and researching abilities that will be able to help you in later life. Plus a PhD shows the ability to be dedicated to something for a vewry long-term, as well as a high level of intelligence, two things many employers are going to value. Don't let it get you down - just do what you want to do and find a way to make it work. I'm going to start my honours year in Ancient History next year and do my PhD as soon as I can after that, and I know that this is what will make me happy and fulfilled. It is just a matter of having the right mindset and fitting everything around that.

2 cents from someone who has gone through the same periods of depression you are describing here.

**Louis VI the Fat** · 08-01-2010, 06:46

Liberal Arts for teh win!

The degree gets you nowhere, the skills you aquired get you anywhere.

**Fragony** · 08-01-2010, 07:26

Originally Posted by jabarto

Well honestly, I'm getting some pretty mixed information in my inquiries on this matter. THe only thing that seems to be unilaterally agreed upon is that history PhD's are useless. And I can't get into an HVACR program either, because the damn things fill up so quickly.

I've had enough for now. I'd welcome any more advice from anyone reading this, but I think I need to take a break for a little while or I'm going to get depressed.

Well history can be depressing. To make it worse, language changes, your knowledge on French and German is pretty useless. English as well. But still, latin for old Europe, French for post-modern, English for modern. I don't know how it is in the states, but a history degree is a big bonus here, it's not useless.

**Skullheadhq** · 08-01-2010, 09:49

Latin (Ancient Rome and Medieval times) and Greek (Ancient Greek and Byzantine times)

**Rhyfelwyr** · 08-01-2010, 14:08

Maybe it's different in the states, but here History is a very competetive course to even get into, and it's a good general degree to have for future career options, it doesn't tie you down like medicine or whatever. It's not seen as an easy degree like sociology or computer science or whatever (I'm not saying they are easy, it's just the common perception).

I guess people are maybe concerned because a history degree isn't very vocational? But that doesn't really matter, having a degree shows you have all the basic work and communication skills an employer would want.

I'm going into my last year of a joint degree in History and Politics myself, and I've never heard of having to learn any languages, although admittedly I have been focused on early modern stuff, only did a bit of medieval history in the first year.

**Beskar** · 08-02-2010, 03:00

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

It's not seen as an easy degree like sociology or computer science or whatever (I'm not saying they are easy, it's just the common perception).

Don't you mean "Buisness Studies" "Media Studies" "Buisness Maths" and other such titles? From what I know from people doing it, Computer Science is far from simple, especially as you have to know how to program and at the end, you have to do a major programming project.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 08-02-2010, 10:28

Originally Posted by Beskar

Don't you mean "Buisness Studies" "Media Studies" "Buisness Maths" and other such titles? From what I know from people doing it, Computer Science is far from simple, especially as you have to know how to program and at the end, you have to do a major programming project.

Proper CS is not so much about programming: it is about computations. So it is essentially a field which takes bits of all sub-fields of Mathematics and models machines or instructions with it, and for that reason you see students of linguistics taking CS-courses (formal grammars, mathematical descriptions behind logic). Programming is merely a practical project to demonstrate your understanding of some of the required skills. A typical CS project is http://pierement.zoo.cs.uu.nl/muugle/ Even the CS-y programming languages reflect that: for instance Algol was devised as a way to write programs that were provably (as in a math's proof) correct, and Haskell requires a bit of understanding of math before you can even use it.

As for languages: I would say you need to learn to read them, mostly. So it's not such a major issue if you cannot pronounce “Au secours” to safe your life if all you are going to do is *read* it. With that in mind the much less flexible and more formal French language would be an easier thing to pick up than German (where syntax and auxiliary verbs can play funny tricks with the meaning of a sentence) and about as useful too. Of course the exact usefulness of a language depends heavily on the research you will do and need to read.