Islamic group to build mosque adjacent to ground zero

[Fragony]

I'm not tolerant, neither are the people behind this mosk

[Strike For The South]

I'm not tolerant, neither are the people behind this mosk

um ok. It doesn't change the fact it's private land bought with private money.

As long as they don't start arming terrorists they can do what they like

[Fragony]

Not my words just linking the text, but know what you are getting into

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/from-an...inglepage=true

Your tolerance is wasted

[Hax]

Fragony, are you going to keep linking to pajamasmedia? I don't know how long Lemur wants to discuss with you about that site.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I guess freedom and tolerance trully only extends to what you feel comfortable with

Tolerance of different beliefs does not mean we all have to adopt pluralism.

But for some reason people nowadays think it does. First we began to allow people to practice their beliefs, next we need to all agree with them.

[Fragony]

Fragony, are you going to keep linking to pajamasmedia? I don't know how long Lemur wants to discuss with you about that site.

What does it matter who hosts the text? They will naturally host it given the nature of the blog

This moderate muslim pretty much sums up eveything I pointed out, so wut

Had to remain in the blogosphere with the Flotilla as well, I was right wasn't I. Mainstraim media doesn't report news they make it.



A little sadder plz

[Lemur]

Fragony, are you going to keep linking to pajamasmedia? I don't know how long Lemur wants to discuss with you about that site.

Don't worry on my account; this conversation is over as far as I'm concerned. The Cordoba Initiative doesn't have even a fraction of the funding needed, the mosque is not going to happen, and the entire issue is a fantasy of outrage and posturing. Anyone still puffing and huffing over this issue is willfully denying reality.

If Fragony wants to keep linking to fringe-right unsubstantiated ranting, that's his privilege. Maybe some enterprising soul will cross-reference with some fringe-left bloggers and we can call it a hoe-down.

Personally, I have some better ways to amuse myself, and I haven't even been around for the last three days. Cheers. Carry on.

[Fragony]

Awwwwwwww Lemur doesn't want to play, but what do you make of this guy Hax. Personally I think they made him up, I don't think he really exists

Abdur-Rahman Muhammad is a Washington, D.C.-based writer who was once the Imam of a mosque where he taught radical Muslim ideology. He has since renounced those views and works to combat Islamic extremism in the American Muslim community. He is a senior writer for the Association for the Study of African American Life and History (ASALH) and his work has appeared in numerous publications such as the Washington Afro American, the Philadelphia New Observer, and others. His work can be read at his popular blog A Singular Voice. He holds a BA degree in Philosophy from Howard University.

[tibilicus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwaN...layer_embedded

So when a large group of people stand around, chanting Anti-Muslim slogans, it's still about the vicinity of the Mosque, right? My favourite part is when the crowd mistakes a dark-skinned coloured man for a Muslim and confront him. I wonder what would of happened if the cameras weren't there and it was a more secluded venue..

Perhaps we can return to those days where if you didn't like the person who looked different, you could simply hang them from a tree. Where did that American dream go? I think it's about time America started talking about its underlying racism/ religious intolerance towards Muslims. After all, they're a growing demography, right?

The sad thing is, the example of that dark-skinned guy being mistaken for a Muslim shows how uneducated many Americans actually are. Brown skinned person doesn't= Muslim, the majority of American Muslims are actually white. Sometimes America just needs to turn off the cameras, it makes me sad to see a country which thinks so much of itself descend into hate and intolerance when an issue it doesn't understand comes its way.

[Beskar]

The sad thing is, the example of that dark-skinned guy being mistaken for a Muslim shows how uneducated many Americans actually are. Brown skinned person doesn't= Muslim, the majority of American Muslims are actually white. Sometimes America just needs to turn off the cameras, it makes me sad to see a country which thinks so much of itself descend into hate and intolerance when an issue it doesn't understand comes its way.

I think they have the same source of information as the bananasinpajama's blog.

[Fragony]

My favorite part is the anti-anti movement protesting against the jews personally

Full text, see this is the typ of guy I can have a drink with

As I write, nearly two thousand protesters are gathered outside the location of the future mosque — some having stood in the rain for hours — providing a clear indication that the campaign to stop this project is intensifying. The pollsters tell us that nearly 70 percent of all Americans oppose the structure, yet its sponsors say the edifice will somehow promote “interfaith dialogue” and “mutual understanding.” They must certainly realize at this stage in the process that the mosque will do no such thing, but will instead act as a permanent provocation to a huge segment of Americans who deem it completely inappropriate — if not outright sacrilege.

Let us remember that the project organizers themselves created this controversy by announcing that the groundbreaking would take place on the ten-year anniversary of the attack, and that the exact site was selected because of its proximity to Ground Zero. Given that fact, the current media meme that this is not a “Ground Zero mosque” is dishonest spin.

Even more dishonest — and dangerous to this country — is the outrageously biased work in Time, the New York Times, the Washington Post, and Newsweek, and on NPR, PBS, MSNBC and CNN that has consistently portrayed popular opposition to this mosque and several other mosques around the country as evidence of bigotry and so-called “Islamophobia.” This is mass libel by these media institutions.

The mainstream media has deliberately ignored the fact that there is legitimate basis for fear of mosques — as it is a demonstrable fact that mosques and Muslims have been disproportionately connected to terrorism in this country and around the world, a fact that the media won’t report. Moreover, in the examples of opposition to specific mosques chosen by the media as evidence of popular “bigotry,” the media has selectively ignored the openly available evidence showing unambiguously that these mosques or their officials are connected to or supportive of the radical Muslim Brotherhood (the parent of al-Qaeda), Hamas, and other radical Islamic fundamentalist organizations.

Why have these media institutions not investigated these ties? Why does the media investigate American charities that support settlements in the West Bank, but refuse to investigate the militant and terrorist ties to mosques and Islamic groups here at home?

The imam heading up this $100 million project, Faisal Abdul Rauf, enjoys the full support of the sympathizing left-leaning media, and together they have attempted to frame this fight as a First Amendment issue. They’ve worked to cast the opponents of the project — including the 9/11 families — as bigots bent on denying “peaceful Muslims” the “right” to build a facility on their own property. All of this is sheer nonsense, because as many commentators already noted this week, the right to build the mosque was never in question — only the appropriateness of putting it near Ground Zero. It is simply not possible, and indeed quite dishonest, to characterize 70 percent of the population as bigots and “Islamophobes,” despite what the media would have us believe.

As an American Muslim, I can say with confidence that most folks have no desire to trample our First Amendment rights, and have said so repeatedly. It is not even entirely clear to me that, were the Muslim developers of the mosque genuinely moderate, it would be so bitterly opposed. But then again, they probably would never have proposed such a thing in the first place.

But how can anyone believe that Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf and his followers are moderates when they very deliberately refuse to condemn Hamas, a sworn enemy of this country and a major center of terror in the world? When asked directly to repudiate the group, all he could say was: “I am not a politician.”

This is typical of the double-speak and evasive tactics employed by the prominent Muslim groups in America, an unmistakable red flag that something is wrong here.

He’s also called this country an “accessory” to the 9/11 attacks, and has written that America is shariah (Muslim law) compliant. Forget all the rubbish about “interfaith dialogue” and “mutual understanding.” The ongoing battle over this site has already belied that charade. Abdul Rauf and his Islamic supporters — most of whom are affiliated with Muslim Brotherhood front groups — will never give this project up because there is too much at stake for him. If he manages to get the thing built, he will be one of the most powerful personalities in the Muslim world — radical, moderate, or otherwise. More importantly, the mosque will come to symbolize in the radical Muslim world the triumph of Bin Laden’s attack, and provide a kind of heavenly validation for his approach to spreading radical ideology. For what other reason could the tenth anniversary have been chosen for the groundbreaking?.

It is not hard to see that this will only inspire more attacks. The logic will be: “If Allah gave us one miracle, maybe He’ll give us more.”

If some Americans are suspicious and fearful of Muslims, it’s not without good reason, and nothing their self-appointed leadership has done or said in the nine years following 9/11 has allayed those fears. Non-Muslim Americans have yet to see any clean line of demarcation between radical and moderate Muslims. Everywhere around the globe Muslims are the cause of so much bloodshed and turmoil, making life on this planet a living hell.

What are people to think when they see a group of World Cup fans blown up in Uganda by Somali Muslim psychopaths? Closer to home, a U.S. Army Major shoots his fellow soldiers! What are they to make of a Pakistani national given U.S. citizenship just last year attempting to set off a car bomb in Times Square? And the self-taught “American” sheikh, Anwar al-Awlaki, who from his cave somewhere in Yemen calls on Muslims to murder Americans, and they listen?

The underlying problem in this bitter controversy is that Muslims in America suffer a deserved trust deficit, wherein they are seen as a foreign and dangerous element. Perhaps if the $100 million being spent on this mosque were used to build, say, a hospital, this perception would begin to change.



Good news no, moderate muslims, they exist, thought you guys would be happy

[Ronin]

I'm not tolerant, neither are the people behind this mosk

Fox News?... I have to say I agree :P

[Rahwana]

If I or CW link to real extremist website (then you should translate it first), you'll said "that wasn't the opinion of whole"

aww, man... please... everything is opinion... and you should knew how to differentiate between "truth" and "fabricated"

[Skullheadhq]

I thought I'd not withhold you all of this:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...t-company-trap

[Fragony]

If I or CW link to real extremist website (then you should translate it first), you'll said "that wasn't the opinion of whole"

aww, man... please... everything is opinion... and you should knew how to differentiate between "truth" and "fabricated"

The European sickness, they are so sure they are 100% correct that they simply can't imagine that not everybody thinks exactly like they do, armchair world-travelers.

[Ronin]

I thought I'd not withhold you all of this:
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mo...t-company-trap

that was what I was making reference to before...

Fox News tells us this guy is evil.
but this guy is a part owner of Fox News.
Therefore for news is Evil, and can we trust what they say?

I´m dizzy now... :P

I guess this makes Bill O'Reilly, Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity terrorist supporters. No wonder they bash the president daily.

[al Roumi]

The European sickness, they are so sure they are 100% correct that they simply can't imagine that not everybody thinks exactly like they do, armchair world-travelers.

Oh please, this discussion lost any semblance of credibility when it was stated that muslim women in a hijab means terrorists are about.

[Fragony]

Oh please, this discussion lost any semblance of credibility when it was stated that muslim women in a hijab means terrorists are about.

Must be a leftist reflex as I never said such a thing

[al Roumi]

Must be a leftist reflex as I never said such a thing

You aren't the only person posting here...

[Lemur]

I see this thread continues to be content- and calorie-free. How's that mosque coming? Anybody seen the blueprints? The plans? The engineering reports? Hmmmm? How about a concept drawing? Anything?

Here's one of them "leftists" Frag keeps going on about. Strangely, he's publishing in American Conservative. Must be yet another example of taqiyya, yes indeedy.

[W]hat I find remarkable about this mosque controversy is how blatantly, narrowly political the opposition to this particular construction project has been. It has been an exercise in manipulating public anger and using it for the purpose of waging an ostensibly anti-Islamist political campaign by organizing against harmless Muslims and their organizations. A distinctive American culture isn’t under threat from this mosque, the Cordoba Initiative or Imam Abdul Rauf. Rauf and those like him do represent a threat to lazy conservative anti-jihadism that treats every Muslim to “the right” of Ayaan Hirsi Ali as a potential fifth columnist and would-be enforcer of creeping shari’a. [...]

It isn’t enough if Muslims peacefully practice their religion, reject violence and embrace their new countries, but they must also become pro-government loyalists.

[Fragony]

You aren't the only person posting here...

Then be more specific plz, I take it is either Cute Wolf or Sonic as they march with me. These two know their stuff, Sonic is an ex-muslim of Indo/Arab descent and Cute Wolf a minority in a muslim country, I would be careful with dismissing their input.

[al Roumi]

Then be more specific plz, I take it is either Cute Wolf or Sonic as they march with me. These two know their stuff, Sonic is an ex-muslim of Indo/Arab descent and Cute Wolf a minority in a muslim country, I would be careful with dismissing their input.

Indeed, and I would castigate myself had I been doing so on matters of which they have experience -i.e. in Indonesia. However, when it comes to Muslims in the UK or Europe, I don't think they have a clue -and I'm still waiting for any kind of substantiation of the outrageous claim that:

"You allready knew that your average european muslims is wahhabi one, the one who called themself as sunnah wal jammaah."

And then (admitedly in a different thread):

is there any muslim women who didn't worn hijab on that flotilla? if that gals present, then Israel had more to be blamed (moderate muslims really exist there, and they shouldnt be shot)

...where the implication is that 1) (again) you can tell an extremist group by whether the women in it wear Hijabs, 2) it might be ok to shoot a group of Muslims when the women in the group do wear Hijabs.

It is ramadan now. Many more muslim women where I live are wearing Hijabs on the streets than usual. Does this mean there has been a rise in extremists?

[Fragony]

It certainly isn't true for the Netherlands, most wear it out of piety, the custom has it's roots in Arab islam though. But let's turn it around, why are you so sure that it simply isn't true.

[al Roumi]

It certainly isn't true for the Netherlands, most wear it out of piety, the custom has it's roots in Arab islam though. But let's turn it around, why are you so sure that it simply isn't true.

Because those who I know that wear it, do so out of choice (modesty) and are most certainly not Salafist or fundamentalist. Some are "strict" (e.g. by my definition that means not marrying a non-muslim), but that is still a long way from fundamentalist, never mind extremist. They also insist that everyone they know who wears the Hijab also does so out of choice. They don't deny that there will be some who are forced to wear the Hijab, but they consider them to be a minority. They consider it arrogant that people assume muslim women must be oppressed to wear it.

Al Qaida are terrorists with a clear political agenda which they back up with select bits of scripture. That does not make all muslims terrorists.

[Fragony]

Because those who I know that wear it, do so out of choice (modesty) and are most certainly not Salafist or fundamentalist. Some are "strict" (e.g. by my definition that means not marrying a non-muslim), but that is still a long way from fundamentalist, never mind extremist. They also insist that everyone they know who wears the Hijab also does so out of choice. They don't deny that there will be some who are forced to wear the Hijab, but they consider them to be a minority. They consider it arrogant that people assume muslim women must be oppressed to wear it.

Some do some don't, but that wasn't my point, you seem to naturally assume they share your values, some do and some don't, the latter may be a bit more represented than you might expect from your experiences.

[al Roumi]

Some do some don't, but that wasn't my point, you seem to naturally assume they share your values, some do and some don't, the latter may be a bit more represented than you might expect from your experiences.

I do? Where do I say that?

Some have very different values to me, they might be hard to understand but I have to respect them. Personaly I'd rather women played as full and complete a part in society as men (rather than shutting themselves off through modesty), but if it's a personal choice, I have to respect it. It doesn't make them bad people, let alone terrorists or extremists.

My "line in the sand" is about having a positive desire to coexist and not force things on other people, which is exactly what the UK is meant to be all about.

[Fragony]

This isn't about headscarves, it's about potential terrorism. You slammed Cute Wolf's post, so why are you so sure that not every veiled muslima is a potential terrorist, purely theoratical because it's naturally not true.

[al Roumi]

This isn't about headscarves, it's about potential terrorism. You slammed Cute Wolf's post, so why are you so sure that not every veiled muslima is a potential terrorist, purely theoratical because it's naturally not true.

If it's naturaly not true, why are you even asking me to try and answer? You are asking me to prove a negative...

Why not ask me to explain how I "know" you or any other person isn't a murderer? The answer, in its simplest form is that you don't know, but the chances that they are murderers are slim, as murderers are rare. Terorrists are even rarer.

A slightly more sophisticated answer might be, well, talking to those I know: they aren't terrorists and abhor Al Qaida's acts, politics and what they have done to the western perception of Islam.

[Fragony]

If it's naturaly not true, why are you even asking me to try and answer?

Getting there, so why are you so sure muslims aren't potential terrorists, or rather, hostile towards the west. The European (or western) disease, the assumption that everybody thinks like we do. Some really don't, that brings back at this mosk, why are people so sure that this isn't a big screw you and that this isn't seen as a major victory of Islam?

[Rahwana]

Getting there, so why are you so sure muslims aren't potential terrorists, or rather, hostile towards the west. The European (or western) disease, the assumption that everybody thinks like we do. Some really don't, that brings back at this mosk, why are people so sure that this isn't a big screw you and that this isn't seen as a major victory of Islam?

and he dismiss advice from someone who understood how "they" thik... as rubbish...

we allready see who was the ignorant one