People-Senate Question

[The Anarchist]

I've noticed that I can't find a way to get full or high Senate Popularity, without the Mob hating me Or I have full popularity or high popularity (enough to take Rome) And the Senate hate me, or worse send messages like
Kill Faction Leader - the Senate demand the Suicide of your Faction Leader
If you Fail:
You will be Outlawed
And other threats.
So I was wondering, is there any way to maintain a High Popularity with both sides, or will it always sway one or the other.

[ReluctantSamurai]

It's rigged. When you reach 20 or 25 settlements, expect to be outlawed and let the "games" begin

In other words, by design, you will eventually have to fight the other Roman factions, so be prepared. When you reach 15 settlements or so, you should begin to filter armies and good generals back to Italy, and get your fleets up to strength and ready. You will see your popularity with the people go up and the Senate's down. You will get a message that you have the popular support of the people to seize power. At that point, when the Senate commands that your faction leader commit suicide, you can tell them....well, you get the idea

It's really the only fun to be had, IMHO, when playing a Roman faction.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Ditto Samarai's counsel. The two popularity posits - the Senate and the People - tend to work in opposite directions. Occasioanlly in the early game you will see your popularity grow with both the Senate and the People. But as soon as your popularity with the people starts to really take off in the turns between 20-25 regions captured, that's when the Senate starts to get concerned about you. In the early going when you're obedient to Senatorial instructions and conquering like mad, the Roman Senate's estimation of you grows. You need some of the rewards like senatorial and city offices. These offices help your faction members grow in influence and power within the empire. But the Senate will start to cool toward you somewhere between 20-30 captured regions. They will still reward you for captures and bestow recognition and offices, but your popularity goes down as the Senate gets jealous of your accomplishments and starts to 'worry' about your ambition. Some of the popularity or dislike, be that as it may, will depend on the characteristics of some of your faction member too. I've never been able to determine with any certainty just how some of those personality characteristics weigh into the the Senate Floor popularity.

I've never gotten the Senatorial command for my faction leader to commit suicide except in the very late game when I had 40-45 regions captures. There are risks to delaying the Civil War into the very late game. One being that you can be so spread out on the campaign map that you will have difficulty defending the extremities of your own empire against your fellow Romans in the Civil War.

My own strategy for build up for the Civil War depends on money. As you play the game more you will get a feel for when you can start building extra armies in Italy. Somewhere around 25-35 regions captured the game will give you the 'A Chance for Power' option. But that doesn't mean you should go for it right away. There's plenty of time and you want to build up your forces for a multi-front attack. You and the Senate and the other Roman factions are going to trade body blows in Italy. But try to build some extra armies so you can hit the other Roman factions 'where they ain't.' You want to grab their big money cities that are usually lightly defended.

You'll also want to some stop gap armies to block the Roman factions from doing the same to you. You don't want them sending large forces into areas where you're weak or you have cities lightly defended. Annd . . . . those armies that are acting as blocking forces need to have some cities close by where they can easily get replacements.

I remember playing the Julii once when I held Campus Iazyges in western Romania. The Brutii had Porrolissom and about 15 huge stacks in southern Russia and Thrace. I had two armies serving as blockers around my city and could at least provide replacements for early legionary cohorts and cavalry. The Brutii sent stack after stack at me. I must have won 10-12 battles and three different crossed-swords markers on the campaign map. They were relentless. I didn't start getting some relief from the onslaught until I got one of my armies to Sparta and started taking all the cities in the soft underbelly of the Brutii empire. They had to divert some of their forces to deal with my new front in the Peloponese.

Fascinating game eh?

[The Anarchist]

Thanks Guys. My Civil War broke out and its quite Mad, but Italy, Greece and Africa were practically empty, so the real fight will be in Egypt and Russia.
BTW That was really interesting too. Nice Idea to Block the Cities.

[Cute Wolf]

yeah, the senate mechanics is pretty interesting, especially since it was hardcoded to hate you eventually....
Pope mechanics in M2TW is pretty much better... (only if you are such evil heretic, they will call crusade to your land)

[A Nerd]

I had my faction leader commit suicide once when the Senate asked me to just for kicks. I got the order again for my new faction leader about 2 turns later, so I guess it doesn't really matter too much. Another time, when the civil war broke out, the other Roman factions hadn't reached the Marion reforms but I had, talk about an uneventful civil war! That only happened once though.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Another time, when the civil war broke out, the other Roman factions hadn't reached the Marion reforms but I had, talk about an uneventful civil war! That only happened once though.

Something about that statement doesn't ring true to me. The Marius reforms occur once and for all for all Roman factions. My guess is one of three things may have happened - (1) you simply faced Roman armies in the civil war that still retained pre-Marian troops and didn't notice otherwise. Or, (2) there's a bug in the game I was unaware of. Or, (3) it's possible, I suppose, if the Civil War started before you triggered the Marius event, you could have thrown the game a curve and the other Roman factions could have been cut out of participating in the event when it did happen for you. I've never played a game, however, where the Civil War got underway before the Marius event. It would be interesting to see what would happen in that case.

The Marian reforms occur whenever the first Roman faction that has a city in the Italian peninsula that reaches a population of 24,000 and completes the construction of the administration building for that level. The only exception to that rule is Messina in Sicily since it starts out as a Roman city for the Scipii. So, it can also trigger the Marius event. The Roman factions do not each have their own separate Marius reform event.

The earliest I've ever seen the Marius event occur for me is in 236 BC. But your triggering city has to grow unhindered by plague and bad governorship, and you have to be conscientious about building farms and public health buildings like sewers and public baths. In the case of the Julii, they have an extra help in their temple of Ceres. When I play the Brutii, it's Croton that sets it off for me.

[A Nerd]

It was quite some time ago, and I think the difficulty I was playing at was easy. Though I distinctly remember fighting armies of Hastati, Triarii and the like. THe game was unpatched and quite new at the time. I don't know if this would affect the actions of the AI regarding construction and troop production.

[Rarity]

I have known that the Senate will give us a message to make your Faction Leader to die when we got 20 ~ 25 regions. So, why don't you you try to lose some (Give to other Factions) and only get 19?
I know, this is a mad idea, and i don't think that it will work, just saying for fun!

[Myth]

Haven't received this message yet, but I've yet to play trough the whole civil war. How does one suicide ones faction leader?

[ReluctantSamurai]

I've never complied, of course. I suppose one could put him on a bireme and attack the largest fleet afloat, or assault a heavily defended city all by himself.......

[Veles Shadow]

Haven't received this message yet, but I've yet to play trough the whole civil war. How does one suicide ones faction leader?

Probably like ReluctantSamurai said, but since the Senate tells you to get your killed, you'd expect there to be a "Suicide button" or something .

Although I don't see the point. I think it was put into the game to encourage you to hate and destroy the senate. And it works. The cival war is one of the most exiting part of the Roman campaign, so enjoy!

[ReluctantSamurai]

It's been a very long time since I've played a Roman faction, but IIRC, when you get the suicide demand from the Senate, it has a yes or no reply button. I never opted for killing my own faction leader, so I suppose it's a simple deletion.......after a yes answer, your faction leader no longer appears on your unit roster

[smooth_operator]

When the Senate orders your faction leader to commit suicide, you'll see a check and a cross on the mission scroll. Click the check and your faction leader automatically commits suicide, click cross and you're outlawed, Hello civil war!