Victoria 2 (and indeed Victoria if there's still anyone left playing it here)

[frogbeastegg]

One week to release. Anyone here intending to pick it up?

I did rather like the original Vicky, pre expansion pack. I've not played the Revolutions version enough to form an opinion on it. So I'm rather interested in the sequel and plan to pick it up once I know it's not buggy and/or missing half the features it needs to be interesting as had been the case with many of the earlier Paradox releases.

I felt that Vicky was the most interesting of the Paradox stable, despite my dislike of the setting. It's the one where peacetime is the busiest and most interesting. Between research, politics, diplomacy, colonisation, infrastructure, construction, trading, playing with sliders, and POP management there was always something to do. It didn't feel like the partially empty experience found in many other Paradox games; often in them I find myself with speed cranked to the max waiting for something to happen or the chance to do something. Warfare, always a wobbly and unenjoyable part of Paradox games IMO, felt like it had been placed in the back seat in Vicky and that helped strengthen the experience. Becoming a great power by conquest is passe. Becoming a great power by the might of your industry is more flavoursome.

Vicky 2 is looking promising and I hope that it lives up to its predecessor, and does so out of the box on release day.

[Kagemusha]

I never played the Original Victoria, but currently what time i have to play is usually consumed by EU III. If Victoria 2 has any of the same qualities EU has i think il give it a go.

[frogbeastegg]

Victoria is ... grand. There's no better word for it. There's a feel to it which I've encountered in no other strategy game. It partly comes from the subject matter, I believe. You are taking your nation and pushing it through into the dawn of the modern age. When you start there's no railways, few factories, no grand late imperialistic colonies. By the time you end everywhere looks like a precursor to the current day, and mankind has learned to fly, make electric lights or telephone, and your empire can sprawl from one side of the globe to another with all the Victorian flag-waving you can think of - poised ripe to collapse as modern attitudes start to form.

There's a strange feeling to painstakingly educating your middle and lower classes, invoking the social reforms they then understand sufficiently to clammer for, and watching your government be pressed into a new shape by the pressures of an urban poor who have started to think in terms previously restricted to the higher classes. It makes you feel like the parent of your chosen nation in some strange way; you grew it and taught it and now it's become an entity of its own.

It's hard work though. At least pre-Revolutions. I hear they toned the micromanagement down a lot and added some clearer feedback in the expansion.

[Furunculus]

One week to release. Anyone here intending to pick it up?

I did rather like the original Vicky, pre expansion pack. I've not played the Revolutions version enough to form an opinion on it. So I'm rather interested in the sequel and plan to pick it up once I know it's not buggy and/or missing half the features it needs to be interesting as had been the case with many of the earlier Paradox releases.

I felt that Vicky was the most interesting of the Paradox stable, despite my dislike of the setting. It's the one where peacetime is the busiest and most interesting. Between research, politics, diplomacy, colonisation, infrastructure, construction, trading, playing with sliders, and POP management there was always something to do. It didn't feel like the partially empty experience found in many other Paradox games; often in them I find myself with speed cranked to the max waiting for something to happen or the chance to do something. Warfare, always a wobbly and unenjoyable part of Paradox games IMO, felt like it had been placed in the back seat in Vicky and that helped strengthen the experience. Becoming a great power by conquest is passe. Becoming a great power by the might of your industry is more flavoursome.

Vicky 2 is looking promising and I hope that it lives up to its predecessor, and does so out of the box on release day.

just spent the last hour reading this AAR on V2, it looks amazing:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...=487081&page=2

I will be buying this.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Pretty excited about this. Vicky was my first Paradox game (talk about trial by fire) and I never actually got good at it. My best games were with China or Japan where I fought off the white devils enough to develop in peace, and I won (or came close to it) by building a nation of shiny railroads. :P Then I got EU3 and haven't gotten the nerve up to go back. I hope Vicky 2's interface is more EU3 while letting me play Vicky style.

[Kagemusha]

Well after that description i think im definetely getting this game. By the way Froggy, maybe you should visit the chapterhouse one of these days as franconicus is hosting a forum game there that address the very same period and you can pick your country, playing together and against human opponents. This ofcourse goes to rest of you guys also

[frogbeastegg]

Pretty excited about this. Vicky was first Paradox game (talk about trial by fire) and I never actually got good at it. My best games were with China or Japan where I fought off the white devils enough to develop in peace, and I won (or came close to it) by building a nation of shiny railroads. :P Then I got EU3 and haven't gotten the nerve up to go back. I hope Vicky 2's interface is more EU3 while letting me play Vicky style.

That was my problem with Vicky. By the time I'd learned enough to be half decent at it I was that worn out I needed a break. Then they released Revolutions and I faced needing to learn the game all over again; the new features were too good to pass over yet changed the game dramatically.

The game was great material for a comedy "I don't know what I'm doing!" AAR. 'They Call me *MR* Newbie!' was fun to write. I sometimes hanker to do a sequel, 'Return of the Newbie'.

[Meneldil]

If it's anywere as buggy and stupid as HoI3, then I guess I'll pass. I like the era, I liked Ricky (even though I never got good at it) but HoI3 kind of killed my enthousiasm for Paradox games.

[Furunculus]

it does look like they have improved things from the carious AAR reports that have come out.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

That AAR you posted was a good read, Rurunculus. :D

[Furunculus]

indeed, took over an hour and i didn't move from my seat once.

[Meneldil]

it does look like they have improved things from the carious AAR reports that have come out.

Yeah, it does, except for that whole part about Prussia forming Germany after getting her butt kicked. That was kind of weird, but still not as "wtf-ish" as Italy declaring war on Germany in 1937 or some similarly ridiculous HoI3 event.

[frogbeastegg]

I plan to wait a minimum of 2 weeks after release and see how people feel about the game. The AARs for CK and EUIII looked good too; I brought both at release and found major problems with both. I'm also aware of the problems the other games had at release.

I am lightly optimistic though. Paradox have admitted multiple times that HOI3's release state was a mistake which could not be allowed to happen again. I'd say that they are very aware that another buggy and/or feature-poor release will do them a lot of harm.

Disappointed about the lack of a printed manual in the retail boxed version though. It's a cheapskate move and I notice the game doesn't cost any less because of it.

[Martok]

Looks like there will be a demo coming out tomorrow. You're restricted to playing the USA, and it lasts for 15 years. No MP or save/load, but it will include the tutorial.



Not sure how I feel about this one. I know the original Vicky received a lot of praise, but I know it's also been -- criticized? observed to be? -- complex to the point of being intimidating for some players. As someone who's still learning the ropes of (and occasionally overwhelmed by) EU3 -- a game which, by almost all accounts, is far more user-friendly than most previous PI titles -- I admit to feeling less than totally optimistic about my ability to get a handle on an even more....involved game.

On the other hand, it's a fascinating time in history, especially as it explores various social, cultural, & economic ideas that hadn't received much attention til then. And supposedly the sequel will make things more accessible this time around, so I can perhaps hope I may have a(n at least somewhat-realistic) chance of being able to grasp it.


I suppose I'll just have to try out the demo and see what it's like. (I wish a country other than the U.S. was playable, though....)

[Monk]

Looks like there will be a demo coming out tomorrow. You're restricted to playing the USA, and it lasts for 15 years. No MP or save/load, but it will include the tutorial.



Not sure how I feel about this one. I know the original Vicky received a lot of praise, but I know it's also been -- criticized? observed to be? -- complex to the point of being intimidating for some players. As someone who's still learning the ropes of (and occasionally overwhelmed by) EU3 -- a game which, by almost all accounts, is far more user-friendly than most previous PI titles -- I admit to feeling less than totally optimistic about my ability to get a handle on an even more....involved game.

On the other hand, it's a fascinating time in history, especially as it explores various social, cultural, & economic ideas that hadn't received much attention til then. And supposedly the sequel will make things more accessible this time around, so I can perhaps hope I may have a(n at least somewhat-realistic) chance of being able to grasp it.


I suppose I'll just have to try out the demo and see what it's like. (I wish a country other than the U.S. was playable, though....)

Victoria is about three times as complex as EUIII is and four times as unforgiving. Where as in EUIII, if you make a mistake and lose a war you can probably make a turn around (due not only to how long the game is but the simplified economical system), in Vicky if you lose a war you could very well wreck your economy for the entire game, sending you into a spiral that you can't get out of in time to do much else on the political stage. If at all possible I suggest studying the manual like a holy text and... what's that?

Disappointed about the lack of a printed manual in the retail boxed version though. It's a cheapskate move and I notice the game doesn't cost any less because of it.

Oh

I'd suggest giving the demo a go, but saying it's "complex" doesn't cover the half of it.

[Marshal Murat]

I got Vicky as part of a "Paradox Package". I only really played Vicky and HoI. Vicky was tough just because of the number of factors that one had to juggle, but from the looks of it (i.e. AAR) the system has been eased to allow a more streamlined game. I had planned on buying it some time, but after reading the AAR, I'm definitely looking forward to it (where did my day go? Oh, that's right, invading Mexico...)

[seireikhaan]

Original Vicky is an excellent game. Very rewarding once you've gotten your head wrapped around it. A better, more polished, more fun game than EU III. I'm going to wait and see on this, though. I am concerned that they're keeping with this more open-ended, less linear game structure from EU III/HoI III. Vicky is very structured, and benefits greatly from it. If it loses the structure, I have doubts that the sequel will be worthy of the name.

[Monk]

Original Vicky is an excellent game. Very rewarding once you've gotten your head wrapped around it. A better, more polished, more fun game than EU III. I'm going to wait and see on this, though. I am concerned that they're keeping with this more open-ended, less linear game structure from EU III/HoI III. Vicky is very structured, and benefits greatly from it. If it loses the structure, I have doubts that the sequel will be worthy of the name.

I disagree, i felt the highly linear and structured nature of Victoria ultimately detracted from the overall experience. Giving the player to stretch their legs a bit more is a good thing as it increases replayability. My biggest complaint about Victoria was after a few games, other attempts felt like things were playing out exactly the same as they had before without much in the way of variation.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Yeah, I like how Eu3 can mix it up a bit (even though as a not particularly good player I still feel restricted in how well I can do with each nation). I think the EU3 model of being fairly open while allowing the modding community to make tightly historical and even more punishing versions is a good compromise.

[Jolt]

On the other hand, it's a fascinating time in history, especially as it explores various social, cultural, & economic ideas that hadn't received much attention til then. And supposedly the sequel will make things more accessible this time around, so I can perhaps hope I may have a(n at least somewhat-realistic) chance of being able to grasp it.


I suppose I'll just have to try out the demo and see what it's like. (I wish a country other than the U.S. was playable, though....)

Believe me, nothing I've done in EU3, no matter how big the empire has made me feel as much pleasure to watch as this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

or especially this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Building an economy and industry and army and navy into the greatest power in the world, then seeing how your country's POPs behave is is extremely fun.

To give you an example, in my Austrian game, since 1900's has hit, Fascist parties have appeared, and as it happens, wierdly enough (As Fascist parties usually come to power in frustrated countries who have core territories owned by other powers), my POPs steadily gave the Fascist party their support, and the party DNSAP (Austrian Nazi Party) had a course pretty much like the Nazi party. In the first elections it participated, it got like 5% of the votes, making it a minor party (The two major parties were, the Socialists - who won the elections - and the Conservatives), then in the second election they bumped the Conservatives off the second placed party, becoming a major party (The two most voted parties gain the "Major Party" Attribute, which gives the party extra votes in the next elections) with like 19% of the votes. In the third election, that year there was a Socialist split between the Old Socialists, which had won the previous elections and whose economical policy was "State Capitalism" and the New Socialists whose economical policy was "Interventionism". As it happens, the left-wing voters fractionned off, splitting their votes between both Socialist parties (Like 13-14% for each, with a slight advantage for the New Socialists), while the DNSAP had like 23% of the voting intentions. But in a Constitutional Monarchy, I am allowed to Ban Parties during election campaigns (Which last 9 months in the game), and since a Fascist party coming to power would trigger a regime change from a Constitutional Monarchy into a Presidential Dictatorship, RPing the Austro-Hungarian Kaiser, I banned the DNSAP a few weeks before the election actually took place. As a result, the New Socialists won the elections and the Old Socialists disbanded. It was pretty awesome.

[al Roumi]

On the strength of your recommendations and the excellent AAR, I am going to try the demo. If it's all good (and not tooth pullingly buggy), I might buy the game soonish. I guess it depends on whether I want to have a social life. Otherwise, this looks like a game after my heart.

EU3 is good fun (despite its idiosyncrasies) but the sight of those pop screens from from Vicky2 makes EU3's slider based control of most things in "domestic" policy look crudely infantile. I will probably regret this frequently over the next month but: bring on the detail!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Download commenced, 30 minutes to go!

[frogbeastegg]

Oh, demo! Unexpected. :clicks download, waits:

Vicky 1 was complex and takes an effort to learn, yet simultaneously I found it to be the second easiest to really get into and get going with. CK was the easiest but that's because it was as shallow as could be pre-deus vult. Much easier than EUII or EUIII, in that they always feel somehow illogical and archane to me thanks to the UI and design choices.

Vicky has a lot to keep track of and to do; a lot of that is quite logical to the modern player thanks to the setting. You can intuit what the technologies and settings do for the most part. Balancing the needs, and learning the many options and how they interact is the hard part. You can tell what education will do for you people, you can tell higher rates of it cost more, and you can guess some ways to make money. Finding the best ways to make money, what level to have education set to for best results for your needs, and how to play it off against other needs - that's the hard part.

For anyone who hasn't got it, the original Vicky complete pack (includes expansion) are half price on gamersgate. DRM free, can be installed on multiple PCs, no program like steam or impulse required for installation or play. Cheap, bug-fixed entry point for those wanting to dabble, and it looks like the sequel will be different enough that the original will still be worth playing.

EDIT: those servers are getting hammered! I'm getting less than 1/6 of my usual download rate from gamersgate. Shame fileplanet demands I install their junk on my PC; I refuse. :looks at download timer: 2 hours 30 minutes to go. Ulp!

Good sign, I guess. Must be a huge demand to make this kind of a dent; gamersgate's normally very reliable.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Played the demo for bit, everything seems easier to access except production/finances/imports. I'm hugely in the red (-50 pounds a day!) because (I think) I'm paying for resources for construction projects that I didn't start. Shutting down the starting factories won't do enough to stop the drain, since they're mostly just short of coal, but not enough to cost me 50 pounds a day. I'm going to go through the Paradox forums and see if someone has a tutorial or guide for the demo. :P

EDIT: Maybe I should try the tutorial

[Jolt]

Played the demo for bit, everything seems easier to access except production/finances/imports. I'm hugely in the red (-50 pounds a day!) because (I think) I'm paying for resources for construction projects that I didn't start. Shutting down the starting factories won't do enough to stop the drain, since they're mostly just short of coal, but not enough to cost me 50 pounds a day. I'm going to go through the Paradox forums and see if someone has a tutorial or guide for the demo. :P

EDIT: Maybe I should try the tutorial

Downloading. I'm gonna go straight for the advanced tutorial first before going to the demo itself.

[Furunculus]

Original Vicky is an excellent game. Very rewarding once you've gotten your head wrapped around it. A better, more polished, more fun game than EU III. I'm going to wait and see on this, though. I am concerned that they're keeping with this more open-ended, less linear game structure from EU III/HoI III. Vicky is very structured, and benefits greatly from it. If it loses the structure, I have doubts that the sequel will be worthy of the name.

apparently they are using the sophistication of the game mechanics such as country tags to make historical events likely even if they are not scripted. how well it will work............................. who knows, but it'll be even better if it does.

[Monk]

According to Rock Paper Shogun (and the game's wiki page where they found it), there's a bet within Paradox that Vicky 2 won't turn a profit.

I'm downloading the demo now and gonna take it for a spin later tonight or tomorrow.

Downloading. I'm gonna go straight for the advanced tutorial first before going to the demo itself.

You and me both!

[Furunculus]

he's already shaved off his hair, did it a week or two back.

[Beskar]

Damn, I don't get why Mexico keeps pwning me and why organisation/re-supply is so rubbish. Also, the army recruiting system is a pain (having to use up slots in a province, opposed to Manpower as in HoI3 and EU3)

Only way I can dent the Mexicans is just completely outnumber them, but they seem to have more men than me.

[naut]

Nice. If it is open ended like EU3 then I'll be waiting until the historical mods come-out. Otherwise, after the first patch, yep.