Is it worth it anymore to teach kids today ethics?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Is it worth it anymore to teach kids today ethics? In school I mean. I was required in my senior year of high school, which I just finished up few months ago, to take a career course. The one particular section spoke about being ethical. They made a remark in there to the effect of:

If you are told to do something you don't believe in, then don't do it. Even if you lose your job, at least you know you did what you believe in.

Really? My father did that. He was a electrical engineer for the past 38 years. He was always nice to people. He always 'show up' bosses when they did something yucky. Now, he is making 2/3's of what he use to make. His friends at Westinghouse? He helped them, and are they returning the favor? Nope.


How about the people at the last company he worked for where he made his normal salary. Sure, that company's admin staff was fools, and he was right in a sense when he stood them up right before they went under..... And another company moved in, hired all the kiss-butt people.... but my father. So much for trying to be a "fair" engineer/manager.

He told me "there is no ethics in business". He also warned me never to trust anyone and to be as ruthless if not more then the rest of the people I shall work for when I'm out of college. I myself will do so, since I have a burning hatred for people who try to screw me over now a days.


Does it pay to be ethical anymore? What you think?

My opinion is clear. It is useless.

[Fragony]

'If you are told to do something you don't believe in, then don't do it. Even if you lose your job, at least you know you did what you believe in.'

The people who wrote that are kinda out of touch with reality, typical for people who live from networking. If it all goes wrong they take a jump in the lake and wait untill someone reels them up again.

[Reenk Roink]

What exactly would they even teach? They should just learn the things you learn in kindergarten and then pick it up the rest along from society at large like most people do. That serves most people quite well in life.

[seireikhaan]

Does it pay to be ethical anymore? What you think?

My opinion is clear. It is useless.

If you're trying to determine whether having a moral code "pays off", you're missing the point.

[Andres]

If you're trying to determine whether having a moral code "pays off", you're missing the point.

Indeed.

Also, ethics can be flexible and making an exception for practical reasons or to earn a bit more...

Ehm...

[Monk]

'If you are told to do something you don't believe in, then don't do it. Even if you lose your job, at least you know you did what you believe in.'

The people who wrote that are kinda out of touch with reality, typical for people who live from networking. If it all goes wrong they take a jump in the lake and wait untill someone reels them up again.

My guess it's an out of context and incredibly paraphrased argument, as the amount of times you're going to encounter a moment in your life where your job calls into question your beliefs is very low in my experience. (unless you work for the government then it could be Thunderdome for all I know )

[Vladimir]

My guess it's an out of context and incredibly paraphrased argument, as the amount of times you're going to encounter a moment in your life where your job calls into question your beliefs is very low in my experience. (unless you work for the government then it could be Thunderdome for all I know )

http://www.usajobs.gov/

Two men enter; one man leaves.

[a completely inoffensive name]

What the hell do you mean anymore? At least in the state where I live, ethnics is not a required class, is not offered and thus no one in my city (this is the only region I know for sure) has ever learned ethics.

[Megas Methuselah]

You have to take a class in ethics? Why the hell would the state require you to take a class in freakin' ethics? That sort of BS shouldn't be taught in public schools.

[gaelic cowboy]

I had to study Engineering Ethics in college and it surprised me how nuanced the situation could turn even in a field like engineering.

I would say it should be taught you just never know it might actually save your company money and earn you promotion

[Rhyfelwyr]

Sounds like the wishy-washy feel good crap, who is going to listen to that anyway?

[Megas Methuselah]

Ah-hah. I saw the title and overreacted thinking we would have children in elementary school being taught a european ethical code to live by.

Yeah, you're right, Gaelic. I remember being taught about ethics in accounting classes. It's not entirely about doing what you feel is right, but doing what is legal.

[Rhyfelwyr]

It didn't sound like legal stuff from the quote Warman gave.

[Husar]

Violence is always the best solution.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The point of ethics isn't to achieve a successful life while living a "moral" life.

The problem with having an ethics class as with any humanity such as philosophy or logic is that one class is not enough to instill the practice of utilizing ethics, logic or philosophic thinking in a person unless such person is willing to learn from the beginning for whatever reason.

Let's give a questionnaire to every single person in America age 30+. It's a math test covering all of math up to Calculus. Essentially, algebra, trigonometry and geometry. Now lets see how many people actually get more then even 50% of the questions right. Oh looks like the vast, vast majority fail like actual studies have shown? Then why do we bother even teaching math anymore? Let's end the math at pre algebra since for the most part math will just hold you back from taking the initiative in the free market by having you waste time solving difficult equations about profit while risk takers go for the opportunity as soon as it arrives.

Does it pay to know math anymore?

[Megas Methuselah]

I still ask myself why the hell I bothered going all the way up to Calculus.

Ah well, it's just another thing to fill my conceit.

[Ice]

Since it seems most people don't know basic ethics, yes it's more important than ever.

[Beskar]

Kohlberg is rolling in his grave.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Really? My father did that. He was a electrical engineer for the past 38 years. He was always nice to people. He always 'show up' bosses when they did something yucky. Now, he is making 2/3's of what he use to make. His friends at Westinghouse? He helped them, and are they returning the favor? Nope.


How about the people at the last company he worked for where he made his normal salary. Sure, that company's admin staff was fools, and he was right in a sense when he stood them up right before they went under..... And another company moved in, hired all the kiss-butt people.... but my father. So much for trying to be a "fair" engineer/manager.

We actually went over engineering ethics in a ChE seminar as a senior. The bottom line is; you do the ethical thing because it's right, not because you want to continue your career. Sad but that's the way it is.

http://www.usajobs.gov/

Two men enter; one man leaves.

Using that site is like pulling teeth. Your own teeth.

CR

[PanzerJaeger]

I had ethics classes throughout (Catholic) elementary and high school. Much of it involved leaving campus to do charity work around the city, and then reflecting back on those experiences in essays. If you took it seriously you got invited to go on the annual mission trip to Mexico and somewhere more exotic during Senior year (I went to Brazil).

I really credit those experiences with helping instill a bit of compassion in my black soul.

[Megas Methuselah]

That's good, mane, that's good. Do some charity trips to the reserves up here, they're little pockets of third-world nations in one of the world's most comfortable countries to live.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That's good, mane, that's good. Do some charity trips to the reserves up here, they're little pockets of third-world nations in one of the world's most comfortable countries to live.

Honestly Meth, if I ever do follow through on my desire to be a politician, I would be pushing the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs (link) for as much help and reconstruction efforts to turn Indian Reservations into self sufficient, prosperous, independent entities as I could. It would mostly be due to hearing your first hand experience with native reservations in Canada and their lack of a real voice which in all likeness are probably very similar in situation to native reservations in the US. No joke.

[Cute Wolf]

teach ethics all you want, those kids will pick up their own set of etics in their life if they found yourself dissapointing

[Strike For The South]

Do what you want, but realize they day might come where you need help and it is much eaiser to get if you have been giving.

People don't foget and that is the only true fact I have ever come across

And I'm 20 so I know everything

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

If you're trying to determine whether having a moral code "pays off", you're missing the point.

No, I don't think you understand. Explain your thoughts to me.

You have to take a class in ethics? Why the hell would the state require you to take a class in freakin' ethics? That sort of BS shouldn't be taught in public schools.

Yes sir.


My father always did the right/legal thing.... and he is working at a crap job. The people who screwed him over, are making at least 3 times more then him.

[Megas Methuselah]

My father always did the right/legal thing.... and he is working at a crap job. The people who screwed him over, are making at least 3 times more then him.

Boy, we have different understandings over what's right and what's wrong. Whether we follow such moral codes or not isn't my point.

But when it comes to the law, legal ethics should be taught. We must understand what is legal and illegal in the workplace in order to better understand our legal rights and those of others. If you're a victim of illegal acts, then the law will be on your side. Contact human resources or the cops.



EDIT: Mike, u mah homie 4 life. Y'hear?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Boy, we have different understandings over what's right and what's wrong. Whether we follow such moral codes or not isn't my point.

But when it comes to the law, legal ethics should be taught. We must understand what is legal and illegal in the workplace in order to better understand our legal rights and those of others. If you're a victim of illegal acts, then the law will be on your side. Contact human resources or the cops.

And I agree to a point. But say, Wal-mart is using illegal actives (according to some former employees) to crush the unions and they still.... get away with things.

That my point. It might be illegal, but a lot of people don't report it anyhow for whatever their reasons.

EDIT: Mike, u mah homie 4 life. Y'hear?

OK, mein brotha, keep in cool in the diddy O!

[Megas Methuselah]

Ok. But you're not Mike.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

But my first name happens to be Mike .

[Megas Methuselah]

Oh, wow. That didn't strike you as an exceedingly freaky post, then?