Why haven't the +4 attack lt.spear attribute not been removed?

**SlickNicaG69** · 08-13-2010, 18:08

I heard somewhere that, in the midst of game balancing, all the light spear units, virtually every non-sword infantry, was given +4 attack to compensate for an error made when it placed the units as heavy spear. (Since heavy spear are given -8 attack from the engine, a +4 was needed to reduce it to reasonable terms). However, they eventually just got switched to light spear, due to its better formation mechanics, but they forgot to remove the bonus! Because of this, a lowly, levy-hunter spear man has the same attack as a middle-classed swordsman...

So, why hasn't such an obvious error been fixed?

**athanaric** · 08-13-2010, 18:17

It is a heinous conspiracy by the EB team, financed by the Freemasons, just to annoy you.

**siegfriedfr** · 08-13-2010, 18:26

Unless the guy who did all the EB EDU balancing is still active on the EB2 forum, my bet is, we will never know.

One thing to ponder: if you flatly remove 4 attack from the elite spear units (spartan for example), they become noticeably weaker than sword elites.
Also, most sword units in EB have either the ap attribute (curved swords: luso, pedites, thorakitai hoplitai, Hypas...), or 0.225 lethality (barbarians, maures: the longswords), and are far from underpowered, so it MIGHT be that the whole EDU was balanced with this light_spear thing, or not.

Some say that tighter formations make up for the loss of lethality, not sure about it.

**Ludens** · 08-13-2010, 18:37

I can't find the original post, but Watchman mentioned that testing showed the light_spear did have some penalizing effect. Leaving the bonus in place was considered the best compromise. Off course, a compromise isn't good enough for MP stats, since in MP even minor flaws will be quickly noticed.

**SlickNicaG69** · 08-13-2010, 19:27

Originally Posted by siegfriedfr

One thing to ponder: if you flatly remove 4 attack from the elite spear units (spartan for example), they become noticeably weaker than sword elites.
Also, most sword units in EB have either the ap attribute (curved swords: luso, pedites, thorakitai hoplitai, Hypas...), or 0.225 lethality (barbarians, maures: the longswords), and are far from underpowered, so it MIGHT be that the whole EDU was balanced with this light_spear thing, or not.

I hear what you're saying, but I think the problem is that there isn't more variety of Spartan units, than what their penalty would be. Maybe there should be Elite Spartans and Regular Spartans. A 13 Attack, however, is still higher than the Celtiberian Heavy Infantry attack, an elite mercenary unit. I would even agree that they also deserve the .225 lethality attribute, given how deadly the hoplite method of warfare was coupled with the specificity of the pike spear. But you cannot deny that any regular hoplite deserves to not have 14 attack, as opposed to 10, given the Polybian Principe, which dominated them in combat, has an 11 attack value itself with a sword. The 10 value is inherenty more balanced and, hence it seems, as should've been intentioned. Otherwise, the nerf only serves to skew the game in the complete opposite favor.

**Mediolanicus** · 08-13-2010, 19:31

Originally Posted by SlickNicaG69

I hear what you're saying, but I think the problem is that there isn't more variety of Spartan units, than what their penalty would be. Maybe there should be Elite Spartans and Regular Spartans. A 13 Attack, however, is still higher than the Celtiberian Heavy Infantry attack, an elite mercenary unit. I would even agree that they also deserve the .225 lethality attribute, given how deadly the hoplite method of warfare was coupled with the specificity of the pike spear. But you cannot deny that any regular hoplite deserves to not have 14 attack, as opposed to 10, given the Polybian Principe, which dominated them in combat, has an 11 attack value itself with a sword. The 10 value is inherenty more balanced and, hence it seems, as should've been intentioned. Otherwise, the nerf only serves to skew the game in the complete opposite favor.

You can always change the EDU like I did.

I did not notice any real differences in battles or in AI expansion with 4 (or perhaps even 5) less attack for light_spear units.*

*Not tested, just the overal feel while playing campaigns.

**Skuda** · 08-13-2010, 21:49

The same with me. I changed a lot of other things but it seems the game remains well balanced

**antisocialmunky** · 08-14-2010, 03:09

Hoplites and anything else with light spear get -4 defense vs Infantry. I guess you can call it getting inside the minimum range of the spear or something.