Adding a few regional units to KH

[Morte66]

I have it in mind to play a non-historical Celto-Hellenic faction in Western Europe, using the KH with mostly regional MICs. I'd like the roster to be more a local fusion than "what the KH would have recruited after they conquered Gaul", i.e. I'd like some swords to go with the spears. The units I have in mind are: South Gallic Swordsmen (Botroas), North Gallic Swordsmen (Bataroas), Gallic Heavy Swordsmen (Neitos), and the naked fanatics (Gaesatae).

I've absolutely no idea how to do this. Can anybody help, or tell me where to start looking?

Also, I have a dim memory of reading that you can't have a unit in {some part of your roster e.g. MICs} if it's also in {some other part e.g mercs}. Am I imagining that, or is there something I have to watch out for?

And finally, this not really a modding question but what the heck, what's Greek for "Celto-Hellenic League?"

[Ludens]

Also, I have a dim memory of reading that you can't have a unit in {some part of your roster e.g. MICs} if it's also in {some other part e.g mercs}. Am I imagining that, or is there something I have to watch out for?

What I think you are referring to are the model limits. A model can only be used by one unit-type per faction, or else the game will crash when a battle is loaded with both unit-types present. However, you can reuse the model in other factions without causing problems. For example the elite phalangite model is used for Argyraspides, Chalkaspides and the Klerouchikon Agema. Furthermore, there is a trick that allows you to reuse models within a faction: designate one of the units as mercs. In the above example: Hysteroi Pezhetairoi have the same model as Argyraspides, but because they are designated as mercs they can exist in the same faction. The downside is that this unit will use mercenary officers and standard bearers (and that you cannot use the model for a real mercenary unit). Off course, if you use the same skin for mercenary officers this won't be a problem, see for example the Roman Camillian Principes and Polybian Hastati.

AFAIK you are going to have to change the skeleton and the weapon as well. Have you checked out the modding forums at the .Org and TWC?

[Morte66]

What I think you are referring to are the model limits. A model can only be used by one unit-type per faction, or else the game will crash when a battle is loaded with both unit-types present. [..] Furthermore, there is a trick that allows you to reuse models within a faction: designate one of the units as mercs.

Displays ignorance: The model is the shape, and the skin is the surface colouring? And the model is specified by the "soldier" field in export_descr_unit?

So for example I see the model celtic_infantry_botroas_southerncuroas appears twice against the gallic factions, but one is a merc unit and the other isn't so that's OK. The model is not currently used at all for greek_cities, so could I safely give them one merc and one non-merc unit with that model? That's assuming I knew how to mod MICs and merc pools...

I'm a bit stumped by entries 65 and 478 in export_descr_units i.e. the Gallic Heavy Swordsmen (Neitos) and Celtic Lesser Kings, which have the same model celtic_infantry_calawre_carnute_kleruchoi_neitos, and are both recruitable by Carthage (called "egypt" internally), whilst neither are mercs. Not sure if I've actually seen them working in the same battle, mind you. ;)

AFAIK you are going to have to change the skeleton and the weapon as well.

Provided I avoid the duplicate model issue, I'm hoping to modify the definition of the MIC in export_descr_buildings.txt, and/or the ownership of the unit in export_descr_units.txt. And, um, anything else I need to do but don't know about.

Have you checked out the modding forums at the .Org and TWC?

Yep. They're clear as mud, but I can probably cope. I'm more bothered about EB-specific stuff, e.g. what are all those resources in export_descr_buildings that are needed to recruit certain units? If I try to add the Neitos to KH by just adjusting/copying a Carthage entry, and it turns out that some resource is actually the "The Carthaginian Reforms", KH recruiting will not be so great.

{edit} Ah-ha, I found descr_regions.txt, which appears to have these resources where I would expect them to be, so they're static and global. I might get away with this...

So I see an entry

army_barracks_V1 requires factions { egypt, saba, } and building_present_min_level government gov4 and not building_present_min_level government gov1
[...]
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource A and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource A and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource y8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource A and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource C and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource y8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource y8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource C and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource y8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource C and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
                recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource A and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8

... and I think it's a Carthage/Saba level 4 regional MIC, which is allowing Carthage (known as "egypt,") but not Saba to recruit Neitos when one of several combinations of hidden resources are met. I could basically paste this into the equivalent KH/Epeiros MIC and change "egypt," to "greek_cities," and hope that it works. {edit} And check it out with some judicious use of cheat codes before playing.

[Finn MacCumhail]

just my 2 cents. using Alex solves limit problem (but couses other). then just find CAS file needed and do copy paste, rename it to Neithos for KH or whatever. that is it, I think. you can also draw new texture. though I dunno how to do all stuff with txt files

[Ludens]

Displays ignorance: The model is the shape, and the skin is the surface colouring? And the model is specified by the "soldier" field in export_descr_unit?

Yes, that is my understanding.

So for example I see the model celtic_infantry_botroas_southerncuroas appears twice against the gallic factions, but one is a merc unit and the other isn't so that's OK. The model is not currently used at all for greek_cities, so could I safely give them one merc and one non-merc unit with that model? That's assuming I knew how to mod MICs and merc pools...

In case it isn't clear: giving a unit the mercenary attribute in the EDU does not mean it is recruitable as a merc in game. It's just a trick to allow two unit-types with the same model in a battle. If neither of the mentioned unit is recruitable as a merc, then yes, you can use them both.

I'm a bit stumped by entries 65 and 478 in export_descr_units i.e. the Gallic Heavy Swordsmen (Neitos) and Celtic Lesser Kings, which have the same model celtic_infantry_calawre_carnute_kleruchoi_neitos, and are both recruitable by Carthage (called "egypt" internally), whilst neither are mercs. Not sure if I've actually seen them working in the same battle, mind you. ;)

Can't help you there, I am afraid.

Provided I avoid the duplicate model issue, I'm hoping to modify the definition of the MIC in export_descr_buildings.txt, and/or the ownership of the unit in export_descr_units.txt. And, um, anything else I need to do but don't know about.

You need a faction-specific skin for the units as well, but I think that's it. Changing the weapon and animation is going to be the biggest problem.

Yep. They're clear as mud, but I can probably cope. I'm more bothered about EB-specific stuff, e.g. what are all those resources in export_descr_buildings that are needed to recruit certain units? If I try to add the Neitos to KH by just adjusting/copying a Carthage entry, and it turns out that some resource is actually the "The Carthaginian Reforms", KH recruiting will not be so great.

The resources are there to identify the provinces. There are not related to reforms AFAIK. So yes, you can copy the entry of another unit and replace unit-name and or faction-ownership, and place it in the correct barracks.

[Morte66]

{On Neitos and Cletic Lesser Kings} Can't help you there, I am afraid.

I think the general tag must work like the merc tag. Otherwise you couldn't have Hellenic Distinguished Hoplites in the same battle as KH FMs, since they share a model. For that matter in a Massalian game a few weeks ago I modded the KH bodyguards to use the Massalian Hoplite model with beefed up stats, and had them lined up next to each other in battle quite happily.

You need a faction-specific skin for the units as well, but I think that's it. Changing the weapon and animation is going to be the biggest problem.

Not sure why I need skins and animations to make an existing unit recruitable, provided I avoid the duplicate model thing by just giving up on any units which would have duplicate models. AFAICS there aren't any model clashes -- after all, I'm adding these units to the KH roster because the KH don't have anything like them.

I wonder if we're talking at cross-purposes: I'm not making a non-historical mod for release (it would give the EB team conniptions LOL), this is just for me to play. I don't care if the Celto-Hellenic Union's Botroas look exactly like the Aedui/Arverni Botroas.

The resources are there to identify the provinces. There are not related to reforms AFAIK. So yes, you can copy the entry of another unit and replace unit-name and or faction-ownership, and place it in the correct barracks.

That's a relief.

Thanks for the help, I'll get into this later today.

[Ludens]

Not sure why I need skins and animations to make an existing unit recruitable, provided I avoid the duplicate model thing by just giving up on any units which would have duplicate models. AFAICS there aren't any model clashes -- after all, I'm adding these units to the KH roster because the KH don't have anything like them.

My apologies: I misinterpreted your "swords to go with spears" comment as wanting to change their weapon. If you are just reusing the unit, then changing the weapon and animations is unnecessary.

As for the skin: I recall that the game requires a separate skin file for every faction that can recruit the unit, even when the actual skins are the same. Check this, though, because it's been ages since I modded units.

[Olaf The Great]

Don't Nietos actually use the Casse Calawre model in battle? Either way the Gauls can recruit the Vellorix AND Nietos, so I think you should be fine.

[Morte66]

My apologies: I misinterpreted your "swords to go with spears" comment as wanting to change their weapon. If you are just reusing the unit, then changing the weapon and animations is unnecessary.

I should have said "give KH some sword units to go with their spear units" instead of being ambiguous.

Well, I got KH to recruit Neitos out of a L4 regional MIC in Gaul by editing export_descr_buildings.txt, but they didn't appear in the set of units in town on the next turn.

Next I editied export_descr_units.txt to add KH to their ownership list, and then they did appear after being recruited. They had the icon for peasants on the list of units in town, and the peasant portrait on their unit card. But I had a fight using them (they kick ass) and they looked right on the battle map. I got through a battle + save + load with no problems.

So... to the unit cards and icons. I found that the portraits for the cards are in EB\Data\UI\UNIT_INFO\{factionname}, they're a TGA with _INFO tacked onto the unit name from export_descr_units.txt. I copied the TGA from egypt (i.e. Carthage) to greek_cities and they now appeared with that portrait in game. Similarly, the icons are in \EB\Data\UI\UNITS\{factionname} with a '#' on the front of the unit name.

And that seems to have cracked it for Neitos. Now I just have to do something similar for the other 3 units I want. And I think I'll mod the KH bodyguards to be a souped up version of Celto-Hellenic Infantry.

As for the skin: I recall that the game requires a separate skin file for every faction that can recruit the unit, even when the actual skins are the same. Check this, though, because it's been ages since I modded units.

In the models_unit\textures\celtic folder I found three textures for them: ebceltic_infantry_neitos_blank_egypt.TGA.DDS, ebceltic_infantry_neitos_spw_scythia.tga.DDS, and ebceltic_infantry_neitos_spw_gauls.tga.DDS. That's Carthage and the two Gallic factions, i.e. there exists one texture per faction that can recruit them. Eyeballing the TGAs, they have different tartans and shield logos.

But in descr_model_battle.txt I see (after some trimming):

; Celtic infantry - Calawre / Carnute Cingetos / Galatian Kleruchoi / Neitos -------> MISSING MED/LOW/LOWEST

type				celtic_infantry_calawre_carnute_kleruchoi_neitos
skeleton			fs_javelinman_big, fs_swordsman_barb_slash_big
indiv_range			40
texture				gauls, eb/data/models_unit/textures/celtic/ebceltic_infantry_neitos_spw_gauls.tga
texture				scythia, eb/data/models_unit/textures/celtic/ebceltic_infantry_neitos_spw_scythia.tga
texture				egypt, eb/data/models_unit/textures/celtic/ebceltic_infantry_neitos_blank_egypt.tga
texture				greek_cities, eb/data/models_unit/textures/celtic/ebceltic_infantry_neitos_spw_gauls.tga
texture				macedon, eb/data/models_unit/textures/celtic/ebceltic_infantry_neitos_spw_gauls.tga
{all others pointed to the gauls texture}
......
model_tri			400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

So that's one faction->texture pointer per faction, but there can be many factions pointed to a given texture. The KH is pointed to one of the Gauls, which is what I saw on screen when I tested it.

I think I'll edit it to point the KH at a copy of the Carthage texture, just to be on the safe side (and make them look different from Gaulish Neitos in a fight).

[QuintusSertorius]

I've got a similar, though simpler, question about modding recruitment. I'm playing with Epeiros-as-Pergamon again, and I'd like to be able to recruit Celto-Hellenic hoplites in Pergamon. It isn't currently a region where they are available, but they are a unit I can recruit, so I think it's a basic change to something.

EDIT: Never mind, I asked exactly the same question two years ago...