Out of pure curiosity...

**bobbin** · 08-23-2010, 17:30

Originally Posted by Arjos

They invented "democracy", I find easy to imagine a rural group taking that in consideration...

Why would they give two hoots about that? Firstly most greeks didn't use it and secondly it would just be seen as another way of governing, it didn't have the conotations back then that it does today.

Originally Posted by Loverartis

but I also ask myself this: the greek colonies met native population and their culture. Maybe there's a deeper reason if the native population often (not always, it's clear) assimilated greek culture and not the opposite (I think about the diffusion of the Greek language, it was a lingua franca like the more ancient akkadian language).

No deeper reason, it became the lingua franca the same way latin did in western europe, because the ruling and administrative classes of the region spoke it for a long time (from alexander to muslim or turkish conquests).

There wasn't anything inherent in greek culture that helped it spread, I should also point out that in many cases it wasn't adopted wholesale, for example Coptic (the egyptian language) was spoken by the majority of the population until after the muslim conquests.

**Loverartis** · 08-23-2010, 18:07

I should also point out that in many cases it wasn't adopted wholesale, for example Coptic (the egyptian language) was spoken by the majority of the population until after the muslim conquests.

I agree, a similar thing happened in Alexandria during Hellenism.

There wasn't anything inherent in greek culture that helped it spread

If I've understood correctly, then I'd also add that a lot of ancient literatures talk about the diffusion of Greek culture by the circulation of "artists", teachers and philosophic writings of Greece.

**Arjos** · 08-23-2010, 18:44

Originally Posted by bobbin

Why would they give two hoots about that? Firstly most greeks didn't use it and secondly it would just be seen as another way of governing, it didn't have the conotations back then that it does today.

Being most of the colonist from Ionia, or "original Ionians", and so democratic, maybe the comunities with whom they enter in contact adopted some of their system (mostly related to finance and burocracy).
I didn't mean the boule...

**paullus** · 08-23-2010, 21:48

there are a few things in the works. after all, it's not like Roman control over Etruria was total in 272 BC. Arjos, as for you statement that they wouldn't fight in the same way as Romans, just how do you think they would fight?

**Ichon** · 08-23-2010, 22:15

Wasn't technology part of it as well? Greeks had quite developed school system compared to many other cultures and academics(relatively speaking for their time) often traveled with the trade and colonization missions and were invited to foreign courts.

Also- weren't many of the more despotic cultures considering Greeks chaotic and barbarrians themselves due to democracy and the demagogues which frequently arose out of that system?

**Loverartis** · 08-23-2010, 22:41

Originally Posted by paullus

there are a few things in the works. after all, it's not like Roman control over Etruria was total in 272 BC. Arjos, as for you statement that they wouldn't fight in the same way as Romans, just how do you think they would fight?

Mmm, it might be a good opportunity to consult some book of archaeology of war. Maybe I 've something about this, I can try to search.

**Arjos** · 08-24-2010, 00:55

Originally Posted by paullus

Arjos, as for you statement that they wouldn't fight in the same way as Romans, just how do you think they would fight?

Hellenistic hoplite and the "italic" broad shortsword infantry...
As for cavalry, I don't know ^^
I would say a kind of camilian, but having in 272 Etruscans with Triarii and Hastati, when just a decade before they were still fighting Romans, It's a shame...

**Loverartis** · 08-24-2010, 21:13

I can try to search

I've read something about the composition of Etruscan army... Arjos, you talk about Greek hoplites; yes, in fact they adopted this type in archaic period (650-600 BC), probably influenced by Greek culture (one of the causes was the importation from Corinth of the famous Chigi vasehttp://rogerioscoupedumonde.files.wo...halanx-det.jpg). An interesting source is Tragliatella oinochoe, toohttp://www.flickr.com/photos/dandiff...n/photostream/. Then they adopted the phalanx in 550-500 BC. Diodorus (XXIII 2) report that Romans learned to fight in a "phalanx-formation" by Etruscans. But I'm sorry, actually I don't have found anything about Etruscan army in IIIrd century. (Bibliography: L. Aigner Foresti, Aspetti della guerra presso gli Etruschi, pp. 97-98).

**Lvcretivs** · 08-25-2010, 02:27

Ross Cowan's blog has an interesting essay concerning Etruscan warfare of the late 4th Century BC (http://rosscowan.wordpress.com/etruscans-ii/), in which he argues for pila-armed Etruscans fighting in 'manipular' fashion at the battle of Lake Vadimon 310/309 BC - but, as he quite frankly admits, 'other scholars believe [the battle] is fictitious, a couplet of the battle of 283 BC (Romans defeat an alliance of Boii and Etruscans)' and Livy - and/or his sources - may have made up the 'manipular' formation of the Etruscans,...

**Loverartis** · 08-25-2010, 09:27

Originally Posted by Lvcretivs

Ross Cowan's blog has an interesting essay concerning Etruscan warfare of the late 4th Century BC (http://rosscowan.wordpress.com/etruscans-ii/), in which he argues for pila-armed Etruscans fighting in 'manipular' fashion at the battle of Lake Vadimon 310/309 BC - but, as he quite frankly admits, 'other scholars believe [the battle] is fictitious, a couplet of the battle of 283 BC (Romans defeat an alliance of Boii and Etruscans)' and Livy - and/or his sources - may have made up the 'manipular' formation of the Etruscans,...

Thanks Lvcretivs for the interesting link.
So it seems a demonstration that Etruscans and Romans fought in a similar way in IIIrd century... I can still research something else.