V&V OOC/Signup Thread I

[GeneralHankerchief]

I can't make it public once the results are set to private. The only things I can do are meddle with the result count and add/alter choices.

[Cecil XIX]

In that case, would you mind deleting the first poll thread? I've posted a new one here.

Also,

I fear our old friend Zim is gone for good, or at least for a good while. I have had to replace him in the two hotseats I'm hosting. Should we try to do the same here?

I do hope he'll be back soon. Unfortunately, I do intend to kill off Prince Henry if that's the case. Also Tristan, I'll add your income from your sack of Thorn when the turn starts back up.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Quick update: I'll most likely be back and firing on all cylinders again this weekend.

[TheFlax]

How do I go about accepting someone as a vassal and giving him a province? Can we make House threads? Or is there another plan?

[Zim]

Hello everyone. Sorry I've been gone. The Org stopped logging me in automatically and I long since stopped using the email account my password was last sent to. Finally got it and am changing the pw to something I'll remember (and the email to something I still use).

Since Henry's dead for being inactive and the hotseats I was in have new players at least I don't need to worry about catching up on anything.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hello everyone. Sorry I've been gone. The Org stopped logging me in automatically and I long since stopped using the email account my password was last sent to. Finally got it and am changing the pw to something I'll remember (and the email to something I still use).

Since Henry's dead for being inactive and the hotseats I was in have new players at least I don't need to worry about catching up on anything.

Welcome back Zim!

[Cecil XIX]

How do I go about accepting someone as a vassal and giving him a province? Can we make House threads? Or is there another plan?

All those things can be done at your discretion. House Threads should be made by the House Leaders, as that lets the Leaders edit the threads. Accepting vassals can be done in any way that is satisfying to both parties, so long as it is announced in public. Same with giving provinces.

Hello everyone. Sorry I've been gone. The Org stopped logging me in automatically and I long since stopped using the email account my password was last sent to. Finally got it and am changing the pw to something I'll remember (and the email to something I still use).

Since Henry's dead for being inactive and the hotseats I was in have new players at least I don't need to worry about catching up on anything.

Good to have you back, Zim! I'll add you to the queue.

[Ignoramus]

What happens to the Duchy of Swabia?

[phonicsmonkey]

What happens to the Duchy of Swabia?

I'm assuming that depends on the Kaiser.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sultan Jalal/Askthepizzaguy, declaring that indeed I am/have been part of this game. It is not a joke.

[Nightbringer]

Oh god, the pizza guy has his own Sultanate, RUN if you value your sanity!!!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Oh god, the pizza guy has his own Sultanate, RUN if you value your sanity!!!

Several, at this point, actually....

[phonicsmonkey]

I remember the last time ATPG had his own Sultanate. It didn't end well...

Welcome to the game ATPG, but don't expect us to be happy about it!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think I've already proved I suck at destroying humans in multiplayer. I was only ever good one-on-one.

Still, fear me and stuff. Raaarr.

[Cecil XIX]

Heads up guys, I'm going to be moving on Thursday. Although this won't affect the (well-timed) Diet Session, I may be a little slow to communicate for the next few days. Incidentally, I'd like to start participating in V&V as a player as well as the GM, however without a clearer separation between the two I wouldn't be comfortable having both roles. For that reason I'm proposing an OOC rules change.

Rules Change 4.1 -

The following rule:
*2.1 Cecil XIX is the Game Master (GM) for Vassals & Valour. He is the only person who can decide when turns begin and end, either personally or through a temporarily appointed delegate. He has the final say on all rules disputes.

Will be changed to read: (bolded for emphasis)
*2.1 Cecil XIX is the Game Master (GM) for Vassals & Valour. He is the only person who can decide when turns begin and end, either personally or through a temporarily appointed delegate. He has the final say on all rules disputes, except those that his character is involved in. Such disputes will be resolved by a neutral third party to be determined by the arguing players.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Cecil, is there a save we can look off for the Diet Session?

[Nightbringer]

That rules change sounds good to me. I had yet another potential adoptee this turn but he died unexpectedly, hopefully one will come up soon for you cecil that has a bit more stamina.

[phonicsmonkey]

I support the OOC rules change. Anything that allows Cecil to get more enjoyment from this game is fine by me - he does so much work and should get as much reward for it as possible.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Also support. I don't think it needs to be proposed in the Diet though (quickly browsed through the Charter and didn't see anything to that effect).

[Cecil XIX]

All right, here are the rules I'd like to change/ add. Everyone, please let me know what you think.

1. Any time when two players are besieging a province with seperate armies, there is a clear hierarchy over who gets priority in assualting the settlement and claiming the spoils of war. First, the player with the high ranks gets higher priority, as follows: Kaiser, Prinz, Duke, Member of the Kaiser's Court, Count. If this is not sufficient, the tiebraker will be he whose army has the higher upkeep.

2. The last sentence of clause C in Rule 6.11 will be removed. In Rule 3.4, the following sentences will be removed:

The session after a province is conquered, the Diet will automatically vote on granting the conqueror, which is defined as the General leading the army which first entered the settlement, the province as a fief to be held by him and his successors in perpetuity. This vote requires a two-thirds majority to pass, and should it not pass than the province passes to the King who may grant it as a fief to any avatar as soon as he sees fit.

In it's place, the following will be added:

The conquering general initially assumes ownership. However, the Kaiser can either verify the general's claim or take the province for himself as his Imperial perogative.

3. Rule 7.3 will be replaced in it's entirety with the following:

Players who are at war no longer take the save as normal. Instead, those at war must PM the GM with their orders each turn, including recruitment, construction, movement etc. The GM will implement the orders simultaneously at the end of the turn, and PM the partcipants the results.

4. An elector cannot be forced to use his property for anything, except that money for recruitment, upkeep etc. must be deducted from the treasury. When the Diet passes such laws that force Electors to use thier money, soldiers, etc for some common purpose, violation of such laws is violating the Will of the Diet, not the rules of the game.

[TheLastDays]

Well, I think that the first to rules emphasize the OOC too much and make no sense IC...

For the first one I would still suggest, that the character that first arrives gets first priority to take the besieged settlement... We would need to work out a way to enforce "IC priorities" of course... but IC it just doesn't make sense, that someone could just "march" through an already besieging army and take a settlement himself...

TO number 2 I would suggest to add something like, that the character has to accept the Kaisers claims IC and if he doesnt it would automatically put him to war with the Kaiser (and the Reich), but IC it would certainly be possible... after all it's his army that's stationed in the town

3 and 4 seem fine to me...

[The Celtic Viking]

"I am the Kaiser, so step aside, for I shall take this province, you lousy little Count". Sounds okay to me IC; just having whoever besieges first takes it would just benefit the guy who was lucky enough to take the save before the other guy. If the first doesn't make sense IC, then that is just IC lunacy. Of course, there is the middle ground, where the ranking is only used if they besiege the settlement the same turn, but I don't know how you'd justify that IC.

Rule 2 I agree with you on, TLD, except for it being an automatic DoW. The Kaiser might be too weak to enforce that, or not willing to accept a new enemy in his situation or whatever.

3 & 4 also have my support.

Edit: I checked out the save, and I see that a unit of spear militia has been added to the recruitment roster in Prague. I suspect Nightbringer did this for the Reichmarschall position, as he had asked; the problem is that I never gave him permission to do this, so it's a breach of the rules. However, I had intended to disband one unit of town militia in Prague and raise a spear militia in their place, but I forgot to do this when I took the save. So, Cecil, could you before you continue the turn disband one town militia in Prague, and put the spear militia on my tab instead of the R.marsch.?

[TheLastDays]

Well you're right, so I'd say if someone lays siege and no one else lays siege during the same turn, we can assume that he has sieged first, even if someone sieges the next turn or later, so I would say in this case the one who was there first has first right, while the higher ranking character that comes and pays siege the next turn can still IC enforce his "right" to take the city, but of course the one who arrived first could disagree and they'd have to fight for it... or the higher ranking character lets it go away...

And to rule number 2, after thinkinga bout it, I agree, it shouldn't be automatic. When the Kaiser says "I'll take that." the character can either say "here you go" or "No way" and then the Kaiser can of course decide to enforce his claim if the subordinate refuses ;)

[Cecil XIX]

Sorry for the delay guys, but I've run into a problem with a CTD that's prevent the turn from moving forward. I've checked and it's not caused by a settlement revolting, and it seems if we go back to turn 32 it doesn't occur. The only thing I can think of is to ask around and see what would cause a Hotseat CTD in Lands to Conquer, but since there's no certainty of success I'm thinking it's best if we just revert to the end of Turn 32, and redo Turn 33. Are there any objections to that?

[phonicsmonkey]

as long as we just replicate what already happened I'm fine with it

[Nightbringer]

I'm fine with that

[Zim]

No problem here

[The Celtic Viking]

No, I'd rather not be able to play at all.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In case it's not clear... yes, I'm fine with it.

[Cecil XIX]

I've pinpointed the timing of the disappearance to between Leopold and Heinrich's battles. Since this was during the AI turns, I'm ruling it as a defection, not a bug.

[Zim]

What an oddly shaped HRE.