Army Formations

[Marcus Darkstar]

I would like to open up a discussion for people's favorite army formations they like to use in their games.

For example in my "attempt" to replicate Roman Manipular tactics and from what i could gather from the units ingame text I've created a nominal early roman legion in field formation.

Javelin throwers in the front, followed by Hastasti, Princeps, Ronarii then the Triari. Slingers firing in support from the rears while the Equites cover the flanks with the General in the very rear. This is what i typically use in a long military campaign push in the early roman campaign.



From what I've read from units ingame text it more like it seems early roman tactics were essentially early harrasment of enemy troops with skirmishers, then the infantry waves of the least experienced troops, then the princeps, then the most experienced the Trairi. Essentially tractics used to empathize the Republic's great reserves of fighting men than actuall tactics.

Though i do admit i have yet been able to actually impliment manipular tactics during the heat of battle (like for instance funneling the Hastasti through the gaps between the Princeps when they've taken signficant casualties). I tried to tmake bigger gaps to help this along but the enemy doesnt really help things lol...

Been playing a Macedon campaign prior to this one and have to say while unwieghly at points the hellenistic model makes a bit more sense to me (even if most units are a bit too dependent on others to function at full potential).

[BorgCoitus]

Draw your units of Principes on top of the unit of Hastati that you wish to replace. Once the Principes are in position, withdraw the Hastati, and give the Principes an attack order, so that they'll throw their Javelins. Make sure all your line infantry are in guard mode, as well.

Also, technically, your General would be right up behind the first battle line, surverying the action, bringing up reserves, encouraging the men (very important for the Hastati in the game, actually), and issuing direct orders to units that are being pressed hard by the enemy.

[NoHelmet]

Try this: triarii in the middle, tree men deep, only a phalanx can breach that line (they will hold on indefinitely), on their flanks rorarii (they can stand their ground surprisingly long) and put all your hastati and principes on the flanks (pretty much Cannae formation). It works with all factions. Thin line of spearmen in the middle, heavy & assault infantry to the flanks. One more thing: always try to ensure overwhelming cavalry superiority. With spearmen like triarii, you can anchor many more infantry than your own, and if you ensure that they are aligned without holes in the line, trust me, they wont break. Follow the teachings of Hannibal and Alexandros (with a fine combined army, for cavalry, go with Surenas, or Genghis!)

[Marcus Darkstar]

Well the enemy never give me too much trouble at this point. My armies tend to be larger or at the very least can stand more punishment than others.

I'm mostly ignoring Carthage becuase except a few strikes at Sardinia they havnt really done anything. They dont really have much of a standing armies anymore since i annilated their Siciliy one in my first punic war. They've begun recruiting African Pikemen and Libyian-Phoe elite infantry but they havnt been able to afford much. Last signficant Carthage attack involved 2 FM generals (so about 150 Sacred Band Heavy Calvary), 80 Numbian archers, 1 african pikemen and the elite libyan-phoe infantry. Killed them with 2 mercenary Greek Phalanx, 4 Sardian infantry and about a few slingers hired locally. Always been dissapointed in Carthage as an opponent more of an annoyance than a actuall challage. I think the worst spot i had with them in another champaign of them landing near Capua when the legions were elsewhere kicking their asses.

Actually fear the Gauls beyond the Alps more than I do Carthage they destroyed one of my allied celtic armies (2 Gaullic Heavy Swordsmen, 4 Celt Spearmen, 4 Celt archers, 2 Gaullic Noble Calvary, 1 Lesser Celtic King) with one of their armies filled with silver cheveron units (veterans of their continuing civil war) They even had a few of those Soldorus noble elite heavy infantry with them.

I dont think there are many Hoplite units that can match the Triari I have more problems with missile calvary and enemy heavy calvary. Only recently gotten my allied states producing some Gallic Noble and Liguarian Calvary (javlen throwers decent armor though not much staying power)

Only lost 200 men after the battle in the pic above (maybe due to the piss poor moral Hadruable's men had cause the enemy army was starving itself to death in rebel territory near Emporion), then i took Emporion from the rebels with a bit more casualties took the legion out of comission for a couple of years.

[Marcus Darkstar]

Try this: triarii in the middle, tree men deep, only a phalanx can breach that line (they will hold on indefinitely), on their flanks rorarii (they can stand their ground surprisingly long) and put all your hastati and principes on the flanks (pretty much Cannae formation). It works with all factions. Thin line of spearmen in the middle, heavy & assault infantry to the flanks. One more thing: always try to ensure overwhelming cavalry superiority. With spearmen like triarii, you can anchor many more infantry than your own, and if you ensure that they are aligned without holes in the line, trust me, they wont break. Follow the teachings of Hannibal and Alexandros (with a fine combined army, for cavalry, go with Surenas, or Genghis!

Ya know i actually used something similar to this in my MTW2 Stainless Steel Roman/Byzantine campaign. Scoutari spearmen in the middle, Swordsmen on the flanks, had like 6 units of Calvary 2 Light Calvary, 2 Calvari (Missile Calvary with compound bows) and 2 Cataphrants (heavies). with supporting archers behind the line infantry.

Getting good calavary reserves is a bit tricky in EB though lol.

[NoHelmet]

Ok, for the gauls, bring bunch of rorarii and triarii, and THE ENTIRE FAMILY. Stretch your line as much as you can, put them on stand ground, flank with your brother-in-law, nephew, uncle, roommate and slice them from behind.

And that pretty much solves the problem of cavalry reserve.

[Marcus Darkstar]

Ok, for the gauls, bring bunch of rorarii and triarii, and THE ENTIRE FAMILY. Stretch your line as much as you can, put them on stand ground, flank with your brother-in-law, nephew, uncle, roommate and slice them from behind.

I dont bring mulitple family members into my battles lol. Ever. I perfer FM use for Govenors and Generals. Though the would work for my old Seleucid campaign last i checked i had like 150 family members and only about 40ish settlements for some reason the AS family tend to pop out FM's by the but load.

[ChingizLink]

Follow the teachings of Hannibal and Alexandros (with a fine combined army, for cavalry, go with Surenas, or Genghis!)

You know, in addition to being unfairly vilefied by EVERYONE, both Hannibal and Chingiz Han do not get anywhere near as much credit as they deserve for being great generals and great leaders. Chingiz's conquest of Khwarezm was brilliant, and the battles of which we have details demonstrate clear battlefield genius, far beyond the basic, practically foolproof template of the basic steppe nomad strategy (harrass, close, feign a retreat, whether to simply tire and break up the enemy or to lead them into an ambush, all the while firing volleys in arcade and taking the random "sniper" style shots as they come...lather, rinse, repeat).

And Hannibal deserves a lot more credit than for what he did at Cannae, Trasimene, Trebia, etc. Being able to maintain unit cohesion among a mostly mercenary army that was diverse in every conceivable way (language, ethnicity/origin, tribal identity, tactics, weapon and equipment...), and while being harrassed and chased around a land totally foreign to nearly all of them, while basically living off of the land and being totally uncertain re reinforcements is a massive achievement. Not to mention the way he seems to have changed his own armies' tactical and strategic doctrines, then continued to adapt them against the Romans...it really makes you wonder if he wasn't the equal, or maybe even superior to -- and please, no death threats -- Alexander.

And re the steppe generals, can we count the Mamluk and Ottomans, in particular, Babars al-Bunduqdari and Murad II? (Promoting Murad II's greatness has become one of my pet projects...)

Draw your units of Principes on top of the unit of Hastati that you wish to replace. Once the Principes are in position, withdraw the Hastati, and give the Principes an attack order, so that they'll throw their Javelins. Make sure all your line infantry are in guard mode, as well.

Also, technically, your General would be right up behind the first battle line, surverying the action, bringing up reserves, encouraging the men (very important for the Hastati in the game, actually), and issuing direct orders to units that are being pressed hard by the enemy.

Dude, you seriously just solved an issue I've had since I've been playing RTW!!! I've always been confused as to how best play the Romans as they actually fought in the third and early second centuries BC. I pretty much gave up a while ago.

I would add to that great advice (which was totally concise too, kudos my man!) to remember that the Triarii were pretty much mean to defend the camp, defend the army's rear from outflanking cavalry, and, in the event of a retreat, to "lead" (which is kinda funny, since they were in the rear during the battle, and the whole army would be walking backward) and guide everyone back to camp in an orderly fashion while also deterring any enemy cavalry from chasing any Roman/allies down. (some blame Cannae on the Triarii's position -- and I could be mixing some of this up -- guarding the camp instead of the rear flank)

It doesn't seem like they were used in battle very often--the Hastati and Principes rotated a few times, and the Principes usually closed the deal, just like Borg's post describes. I just wanted to offer some additional info for those of us who really want to play accurately and may not be aware of what the Triarii really did--I mean, they were half the size of the Principes/Hastati, so they really couldn't do much in battle.

God...imagine being a 50 year old guy with grandkids in that position...(let's not even get into Alexander's Argyraspidai, or whatever unit it was, that kept going back and forth between Successors during the Diadochi Wars when most were in their 70s or something!)

[NoHelmet]

..it really makes you wonder if he wasn't the equal, or maybe even superior to -- and please, no death threats -- Alexander.-

Of course he is a better general. Alexander had an inferior enemy at the tme of his wars, and rarely used creative tactics. Not that i say that he couldn't, but he didn't. I always perceived that his succeses were in a great extent due to his army. His courage and skill are unquestonable, but Hannibal still takes the day, as far as i'm concerned.

[Lazy O]

^Stop the alexander bashing/worship right now. Or else it will go to comparison and a useless 50 page debate.

[NoHelmet]

True. My bad.