"Stealing" the enemy governments?

[Captain Trek]

Well, after recieving some sound advice regarding what had gone wrong with my EB installation, I finally got the game working, but now I seem to have run into a new problem... I started a new campaign as Makedonia and conqured Sparte, only to discover that by repairing the pre-existing Type 1 (homeland) government the KH already had installed there for a very reasonable price, I got instant access to the MICs and other structures, just as if I'd spent the time and money to build my own Type 1 government in that settlement... This even though Makedonia isn't even supposed to be able to have a Type 1 government in that provence (the province is listed as "subjugation avaliable", meaning Type 2 is the maximum) at all...

Naturally, this is easily compensated for by simply demolishing the enemy government as soon as I conquer the settlement, as you are supposed to, but I have to assume that you aren't supposed to be able to repair and make use of enemy governments and that there is, therefore, something wrong with my game...

So I ask, is there? Or was EB simply always like this due to the limitations of the RTW engine?

[Revoltie]

Yup, it is like that, you should demolish for the sake of fair-play.

[Nyz]

Repairing other factions gov can lead to CTD though. But if it is not damage, you can just exploit the loophole in the EDB data system.

In these case, Pahlava.

Pahlava is a unique faction compared to other nomadic faction in EB because her has Reform Parthian Government that can be build in region that have Pahlavahome resource. After the government have been built, advance public building such as Music Hall, Zurkhaneh, Caravan Post, paved road etc can be build. Then Pahlava can transform from nomadic lifestyle into developed lifestyle.

But that only limited to the Pahlavahome regions, around Iran and Mesoptamia... In Steppe and other regions outside Pahlavahome, Pahlava cannot upgrade the cities because cannot build Reform Parthian Government.

However, Pahlava can take advantages of other faction government building. In my Hayasdan campaign, I have seen Pahlava built fotress wall, paved road and Zurkhaneh in Khiva. It was using former government building of Baktria, type III one. Khiva have been conquered by Baktia, Baktia built type III, Pahlava conquered back, then start upgrading the city.

So, I try Pahlava, conquered Steppe cities, give it to Baktria, Hayasdan or Pontos, wait them to build their government, then conquered it back. Don't destroy their government and voila!! many public buildings are able to build and paved road ran through Steppe.

Type I and II gov give you full access to public building, you can even build wind tower, remote settlement building, hospital and mirror of the prince. That's help a lot to control unrest in south Arabian cities. (Those have type I of Saba gov: Bhr Almagah).... While type III and IV limit some building tree advances...

[Blxz]

I love it how you play a mod designed for historical accuracy and then cheat the hell out of it. =)

[Nyz]

For the sake of historical accuracy, maybe Pahlava should not build advance cities in the Steppe. Well, however, from archeological findings, at least Khiva and Nisa have been built into advanced cities. You can check here: http://www.parthia.com/nisa/default.htm

ADD: How about Antiocheia-Margiane, Chach, Marakanda, Kophen and Baktra? Those were developed cities at that time. But those not have Pahlavahome resource. If you destroy former gov building, then it cannot be developed further. Not even stone wall can be built. In this case, Gov1 of Baktria (Patris Baktria) will be handy. And those case are applied to the cities in India too (Takshashila, Opiana, Patala)....

[Blxz]

For the sake of historical accuracy, maybe Pahlava should not build advance cities in the Steppe. Well, however, from archeological findings, at least Khiva and Nisa have been built into advanced cities. You can check here: http://www.parthia.com/nisa/default.htm

ADD: How about Antiocheia-Margiane, Chach, Marakanda, Kophen and Baktra? Those were developed cities at that time. But those not have Pahlavahome resource. If you destroy former gov building, then it cannot be developed further. Not even stone wall can be built. In this case, Gov1 of Baktria (Patris Baktria) will be handy. And those case are applied to the cities in India too (Takshashila, Opiana, Patala)....

True, except that the pahlavahome resource is meant to also represent the persian culture as well. This is what allows those buildings to be built there. If Baktra is built up (as you said historically) then you can take it and institute a type 4 gov. Thats what it represents. The pahlava didn't waltz in and build Baktra up in whatever style they had for their major persian cities.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not critisising at all. I was just making an observation. This is a game. Furthermore its a user made mod of a game so it can be whatever the player wants it to be. To make things easier for you and to reduce the chance that script bugs could stuff up your game I suggest that it might be a better idea for you to mod in the 'pahlavahome' resource into most or all of the cities so that you can build them up the traditional (and long) way that is totally bug free. Perhaps you could ask in the unoffical mods subforum if you needed help with that.

Good luck with your game, I quite like the pahlav. Maybe post some screen shots of your empire some time.

[Nyz]

Good luck with your game, I quite like the pahlav. Maybe post some screen shots of your empire some time.

If you wanna see it, then it's here:

My Pahlava in 12AD:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

From the thread: Post your EB Empires

[Revoltie]

That... Is utmost sick.

[Nyz]

That... Is utmost sick.

Whatever....after the pink fever then it will be pink death...

I love it how you play a mod designed for historical accuracy and then cheat the hell out of it. =)

However, Pahlava can take advantages of other faction government building. In my Hayasdan campaign, I have seen Pahlava built fotress wall, paved road and Zurkhaneh in Khiva. It was using former government building of Baktria, type III one. Khiva have been conquered by Baktia, Baktia built type III, Pahlava conquered back, then start upgrading the city.

The dumb AI did that too…

True, except that the pahlavahome resource is meant to also represent the persian culture as well. This is what allows those buildings to be built there. If Baktra is built up (as you said historically) then you can take it and institute a type 4 gov. Thats what it represents. The pahlava didn't waltz in and build Baktra up in whatever style they had for their major persian cities.

I am well aware of that…

Well you know, if Baktria conquer all settlements there and fully develop them, and after that conquered by Pahlava, then you will be cursed with culture penalty.

That’s perhaps not a big issue there in East Persia and India, coz you can always hire mercenary generals, but cities in South Arabia will be real trouble, as distant from capital + culture penalty + cannot hire mercenary general + public order building is restricted in gov4-installed-city…

I am taking advantage of Gov1 there to build Public Order buildings, and not upgrading factional MIC, coz I know it will be no more troops + wasting of time and money.

I you said that Pahlava didn't waltz in and build Baktra up in whatever style they had for their major persian cities, then historically Baktria too, as they also have ruled a part of Pakistan, but they were not converting that area into fully Hellenistic cities.

But what you see in the game? Hellenistic cities in India with just small different with those in Egypt and Seleukeia.

But don't get me wrong, I'm not critisising at all. I was just making an observation. This is a game. Furthermore its a user made mod of a game so it can be whatever the player wants it to be. To make things easier for you and to reduce the chance that script bugs could stuff up your game I suggest that it might be a better idea for you to mod in the 'pahlavahome' resource into most or all of the cities so that you can build them up the traditional (and long) way that is totally bug free. Perhaps you could ask in the unoffical mods subforum if you needed help with that.

I know that repairing damaged-gov-building can lead to CTD. I just used the not damaged one…

Well, we can add “Pahlavahome” resource to whatever cities we want in Descr-Region.txt, and we can have Reform Parthian Government there…

Or we can delete the entry “and hidden_resource pahlavahome” in EDB, and we can build Reform Parthian Government everywhere…

Simple explaination: you just exploit loophole in the edb data system. But as far as you give that city to hayasdan or pontos first, and took it back with diplomacy, that way is a way of me to roleplay i hire persian architect and city planner to develop that city, because taking reform by myself is long and i was too lazy (fd help a lot)

Well, someone also made a roleplaying with that…

[Revoltie]

Play Hai instead, it is simpler =P

[Nyz]

Play Hai instead, it is simpler =P

Thanks for the suggestion, however:

Go go Albath! Go go Albath! Go go Albath!!!

Anyway, this is my empire:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Long Live the Arkahen Arkah! Long Live the Hayastani Empire!!!

[Revoltie]

Facepalms for me. It seems you got a point there sir.

[Nyz]

Ruling south Arabian cities with type III-gov-building was real challenge in my Hayasdan campaign as they keep revolting.

[Blxz]

I love it!!!!! World conquests with both Pahlav and Hai. Do you have any more world conquest pics hiding around? I know Fluvius Camillus has done Rome, Epirus and Baktria. I wanna collect the whole set. Also, did you cheat at all in getting those conquests or was it just genuine skill and patience?

[Nyz]

What kind of cheat? Console command cheat? well, yes, 2 cheats. "show_cursorstat" and "move_character" cheats to go to Terhazza. Others cheats? well, if I did that, then I will conquer the world much earlier....even before AD. If you consider using other government buildings to build the city as cheat, then I used that a lot... :-)

[Revoltie]

If anyone does that with Saba I'll be genuinely amazed.

[Olaf The Great]

I rarely "steal" governments, though in my recent Arverni game I did not demolish the type one and 2 governments the Casse had made, because I think that's silly that I can only build type 3's there and I wanted the two handers.

[Blxz]

If anyone does that with Saba I'll be genuinely amazed.

Prepare to be amazed. i am doing this right now. Had to restart 2 times because of unbeatable CTD's during the AI turn but I got a good feeling this time. Although its only on H/M. VH annoys me too much because I get constant spam attacks of tiny armies (or so I've convinced myself). I think Hard campaign makes the AI wait a bit before it attacks which allows me to face a larger force in one go and do fewer battles overall. I'll go and get some Screenshots to post up soon. Its still early days though. Both seleucids are Ptolemies are still alive. (although most of mesopotamia is mine.)

[Atraphoenix]

I love it!!!!! World conquests with both Pahlav and Hai. Do you have any more world conquest pics hiding around? I know Fluvius Camillus has done Rome, Epirus and Baktria. I wanna collect the whole set. Also, did you cheat at all in getting those conquests or was it just genuine skill and patience?

I use old pahlava goverment together with reformed one.
The only problem you know no mic.