The Dutch Elections 2010

[Fragony]

Ok fellow and closet Dutchies these are interesting elections. The VVD is doing very well, they were right to not send Rutte on piano-lessons in favour of Verdonk. He dominates the debate. Balkenende does surpringly well. Wilders is unsurprisingly Wilders. Cohen well what to say, he should stick to arresting cartoonists in the middle of the the night as he can't debate. D66 is as empty as ever, nothing at all.

[Kadagar_AV]

Sweden also have upcoming elections.

However, I do not kid myself thinking the backroom cares. Not exactly great players on the world stage, are we, mate?

[InsaneApache]

I dunno, I might be interested in Dutch politics. I just don't know much about it. Can someone explain the different parties and what they stand for?

Oh and Finland isn't part of Scandinavia.

[Furunculus]

Sweden also have upcoming elections.

However, I do not kid myself thinking the backroom cares. Not exactly great players on the world stage, are we, mate?

Finland: I am just joking of course. We all know it is not part of scandinavia, right? RIGHT!?

i' be pleased to hear about the swedish elections too, i'm interested and there isn't much coverage of swedish politics in british news.

the dutch elections are also of great interest, particularly because Wilders looks like he could shake up the orthodoxy of immigration, his success which will have an impact all over europe one way or another.

haha, i have a lot of Finnish friends where i live, and they do say such unflattering things about sweden in jest, i always got the feeling that their self imposed isolation from 'scandinavia' was viewed with amusement by by their fellow scandinavians. :)

[Louis VI the Fat]

Sweden also have upcoming elections.

However, I do not kid myself thinking the backroom cares.

Then make it interesting for us. How did Reinfeldt's experiment work out? Did his NuModerate experiment turn out like NuLab in the UK - disastrous? Or did he manage to breathe new life in rightist politics? Has he created a viable alternative to Swedish social-democratic tradition?

[Kadagar_AV]

Then make it interesting for us. How did Reinfeldt's experiment work out? Did his NuModerate experiment turn out like NuLab in the UK - disastrous? Or did he manage to breathe new life in rightist politics? Has he created a viable alternative to Swedish social-democratic tradition?

Heck, I dont even find it interesting.

But yes, last 4 years have been under "conservative" leadership in Sweden. Mind you, what pass as conservatism in Sweden would have Fragony go all Guy Fawkes.

Only mildly interesting point is that the Swedish Democrats might get enough votes to have some impact. The Swedish democrats are of course the evil nazi part who thinks we accept way too many immigrants.

I of course am PROUD that we have a completely out of control immigration policy. The fact that just one of our SUBURBS has admitted more Iraqis than, say, the United States of America has altogether - must of course be seen as something to wave the Swedish flag about.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Which is a more interesting topic on the whole.

Kidding aside and bearing in mind this is about the the debate at RUG (which has a focus on issues of the northern 3 provinces) of which I caught only the tail (CO2 storage/ province merger).

Yes Cohen is not suitable to enter the debate in a blaze of smoke and fire; the man has had a career of holding coalitions together not shouting about how he's right and everyone else is wrong. He's suitable as a proper PM for a change, a way to put aside memories of that utter disgrace of a PM we have now.
Balkenende is what he looks like: a snakeoil salesman at his finest. Spouting carefully studied statements, all the while trying to bring the debate to a personal level “kijk”, “persoonlijk, denk ik”, “dan moet je”. The one good thing is that if I ever had the misfortune to fall for CDA propaganda, he would put me back on the right track well away from there...
Pechtold should quit being witty he's not good at it. Otherwise when there's a topic where he really knows his stuff, he does perform.
Halsema is what she's been the last 8-10 years or so? Consistent, relatively well informed even if you don't agree with her assessments. Her questions for Rutte were clever: not agressive but the way he avoided them (had to) was telling.
Rutte was good probably best except he shouldn't have been avoiding Halsema's questions like that. This way one can't help but feel Halsema is right in saying that the VVD is not to be trusted on issues of environment/CO2.
The SP guy (don't remember the name) was utterly forgettable, except for the last 30 seconds. True given the SP party structure one expects nothing less; but nevertheless it was good to see a candidate who had a grasp of what a debate on local issues *means*. He chose to spend his last 30 seconds of speech time on an appeal to keep the musical education offered in Groningen (which has funding issues). Nobody else pitched any similar issue.

If you want to get some real interest for your thread you could take the Stemwijzer and translate it for people who don't read Dutch comfortably? That way other ORG members can comment on the lunacy, the maddness and the ludicrous?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Please keep discussions in this thread on topic - which is the Dutch election.

Thank you kindly.

[Fragony]

Hmm it's pretty much settled, it's going to be a centre right coalition with support from the populists for majority unless something weird happens, works for Denmark. I am perfectly fine with that. The panic within Dutch labour is starting to show, the red machine is powerless in the digital era, can't riefenthal the web. It's all they know it's almost comical.

edit this however is great fun http://www.geenstijl.nl:80/mt/archie....html#comments

[Kralizec]

It looks like the VVD has a serious chance of becoming the largest party, and because of that might get the position of prime minister for the first time in history.

Wich I'd be willing to try. But the last thing I want is a government in wich the PVV has anything to say, and Rutte refuses to rule that out (I suspect that he also dislikes the idea but keeps it quite just to attract strategic votes from PVV-sympathisers, but you can't be sure)
So I'm probably going to vote D66 this time.

[Beskar]

Are there any quizzes for the party that most reflects your views, for the dutch election?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yes we call it Stemwijzer: http://www.stemwijzer.nl/TweedeKamer2010/index.html . Trouble is, it's in Dutch and so --unless you know a thing or two about Dutch-- you will likely not enjoy it very much.

[Furunculus]

Geert is the kingmaker in this election, and arguably the winner too:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...influence.html

[Hax]

Hmm it's pretty much settled, it's going to be a centre right coalition with support from the populists for majority unless something weird happens, works for Denmark.

No, it won't! The right-wing populists won't gain a majority in parliament. Looks like it's gonna be paars plus (VVD, PvdA, GL, D66) after all, old fellow.

EDIT: Actually, a PVV-CDA-VVD coalition would amount for 76 seats out of 150. It is possible, my apologies

However, I'm still hoping for paars plus

[Fragony]

CDA + VVD + PVV = 76 so it's possible we will see. But yeah probably purple. What is most important is that Job Cohen won't be president it would have bankrupted us. This is going to hurt but it needs to be done we got to reduce national debt.

[Hax]

But yeah probably purple. What is most important is that Job Cohen won't be president it would have bankrupted us. This is going to hurt but it needs to be done we got to reduce national debt.

I don't know about Job Cohen, I do like him. And the crime rates in Amsterdam have actually dropped in the time that he was mayor. He was never the man for debating, he's one for administrating and keeping things together.


I don't mind Rutte as our prime minister (Cohen or Pechtold as vice-prime minister?), but I'd rather have seen Cohen in that position. Yay for the Jews!

[Subotan]

So what does this mean for your Gezellig?

[Fragony]

Less people bothering to go to the police doesn't mean there is less crime, Welten wasn't very happy with him. VVD + D66 + PVDA + GL sounds like the next best thing after VVD + CDA with PVV backing them.

edit: Go Geert suck it up and tone it down, it's been fun but it's time to get serious. Pension at 65 is unrealistic, make it 70 for all I care. VVD and CDA are checkmate. Now kindly stfu about the Islam or at least say it better, we can finally have a decent centre rightwing coalition don't ruin it. GOGO

[ICantSpellDawg]

Congratulations to the Dutch!

[Skullheadhq]

CDA isn't in any position to join a new coalition, the party is in chaos and CDA in a new coalition wold be an insult to the dutch voter, which halved it seats, CDA I think will be going in the opposition to show what it's worth, so far for an all right cabinet. Paars Plus would make the PVV the same as the SP two years ago, which lost most of it seats after not joining a coalition. PVV+VDD+PvdA is impossible two, since PVV and PvdA already excluede eachother in a possible coalition, and Paars Plus wouldn't be very stable, I predict new elections in november.

[Hax]

I predict new elections in november.

After the seventeenth, please, that's when I'll turn 18.

[Tellos Athenaios]

If the elections come November 18th you *still* won't be able to vote, Hax. You've to be eligible for voting when they start the preparations (when they determine who to send the required paperwork), so in practice it'd mean that you have to wait another term for voting people in or out of parliament.

[Hax]

If the elections come November 18th you *still* won't be able to vote, Hax. You've to be eligible for voting when they start the preparations (when they determine who to send the required paperwork), so in practice it'd mean that you have to wait another term for voting people in or out of parliament.

Is that so? Huh. Alright well, in that case, we should wait until our cabinet falls till after the seventeenth of november, right?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yeah something like that Although I expect that between the parties of Paars plus there's actually plenty of common ground and also a clear understanding of what problems the government is supposed to be prioritizing. This means that much of the more crazy/unrealistic proposals can be shunted aside under the guise of setting priorities while the real issue is party leaders having to eat their words; and if the economy finally picks up they might even be rewarded for it.

[Fragony]

All liberals except the PVDA they should find enough common ground, the important seats should go to the VVD and D66, and throw the loonies some crumbs. He's talking with Wilders first though, but I suspect it's just for the record. PVV won't go SP on them though they want this and are willing to do concessions

[Tellos Athenaios]

If Paars plus is going to happen then you can be sure that D66 will have no more offices than GroenLinks (after all GroenLinks actually won more seats than D66 did); and considerably less than PvdA. After all the PvdA is only one seat in parliament less than VVD is. So your dream of Purple-In-Name-Only isn't going to happen.

But PvdA and VVD can probably work together as well as they could in Paars I or II, especially considering they find themselves in a strangely familiar position now.

[Fragony]

If Paars plus is going to happen then you can be sure that D66 will have no more offices than GroenLinks (after all GroenLinks actually won more seats than D66 did); and considerably less than PvdA. After all the PvdA is only one seat in parliament less than VVD is. So your dream of Purple-In-Name-Only isn't going to happen.

But PvdA and VVD can probably work together as well as they could in Paars I or II, especially considering they find themselves in a strangely familiar position now.

VVD doesn't need the pvda, D66 or the Greens, not true the other way around. VVD can really put her foot down when it comes to the important positions concerning finances and immigration. Give the PVDA something with which they can give hobby-jobs to party-members and these parasites are happy. A few carrots for the greens should be sufficient let's just make up a few.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Depends on a single big IF: that CDA is willing to join with VVD and PVV. If CDA is sufficiently power hungry not too proud to become a 3rd support beam in a coalition of 2 pillars; then the VVD can muscle itself forward using PVV support or CDA support depending on the particular issue. But it would be a cabinet with only 1 seat majority and therefore may not be exactly quite as stable. That way, Hax could get a voting card for birthday present yet.

IF however CDA either finds humility or is too proud to join with PVV then Rutte will be as much at the mercy of PvdA as PvdA would be at his and he still would need to appease the D66 and Groenlinks voters too. However the end result would be a far more comfortable majority to be able to survive some dissent from within the ranks without creating a deadlock in cabinet over it.

[Fragony]

It's the CDA of course they are power-hungry. How are they going to profile themselves in the opposition anyway, they have shown to be *cough* quite flexible ideologically, they would become even smaller because they lost credibility. Talking about christian values for 4 years would be boring, and kinda hilarious considering, and economically they mostly agree with the VVD.

[Fragony]

Oh teh irony

http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven....html#comments

http://www.geenstijl.nl:80/mt/archie....html#comments

Kinda funny in a funny way, viva la post-war resistance!


VVD + CDA + PVV is getting closer with minority support from SGP, I think we can say bye to purple+

edit scuzi bumppost tried to edit browser is acting weird