can the AI cheat?

**carthage121** · 09-04-2010, 00:56

I'm playing a game where I'm rome and I'm at war with Arche Seluke. I checked out the graphs and it turns out their finances have been at 0 for a while, but their military power still increases. How is this possible?

I should also mention that Arche seluke is a massive empire that has recently conquered the Egyptian homeland. I'm fighting them in North Africa since they attacked my Cartheginian possesions.

**Hybr1d** · 09-04-2010, 01:36

I've noticed the same thing. I just recently quit a Koinon Hellenon campaign because the Makedonians and Epeirotes kept coming at me in full stacks. I couldnt get past demetirias because the Macedons kept coming at me with endless troops. even though they had like 3 settlements captured. So yeah, I guess the AI could cheat just a little bit... not sure if they do though.

**XSamatan** · 09-04-2010, 01:44

The AI gets a money bonus every turn. Furthermore they will get some money according to the difficulty settings.

XSamatan

**Hybr1d** · 09-04-2010, 01:51

Originally Posted by XSamatan

The AI gets a money bonus every turn. Furthermore they will get some money according to the difficulty settings.

XSamatan

What? That's stupid, why is it like that? The AI should start as the player does and have to manage their financses. Will the AI get a money bonus in EB2?

**TancredTheNorman** · 09-04-2010, 04:49

Originally Posted by Hybr1d

What? That's stupid, why is it like that? The AI should start as the player does and have to manage their financses. Will the AI get a money bonus in EB2?

The player knows how to pick a (good) target for expansion, the ai does not and the player also knows how to disband useless but expensive units and avoid naval engagements before having a develped economy, the ai does not know that either.

The player also knows to have at least a high amount of economic care and not spend whatever it gets on upgrading your barracks, once again the ai knows nothing about that.

That is why the player has to make hard decisions, and the ai gets help.

**stratigos vasilios** · 09-04-2010, 05:49

You have a brain, and the AI gets money. So it hopefully evens out.

I remember reading that somewhere.

**vartan** · 09-04-2010, 06:34

I like how 50% of the authors in this thread (as of this writing) have the default avatar and not a custom one.

Eventually I'll have to write an A.I. for my project and I started wondering when I read the title of this thread if I could represent human tendency to cheat and deceive in encoded form. I wonder, if by giving the player the option of choosing various personalities for the computer A.I., that I could give the player a different experience with the enemy. On one setting the enemy might be brutally honest and not give himself extra money or process_cq all his settlements, while on another setting the computer might be a lying son of a gun.

**Ludens** · 09-04-2010, 10:51

Originally Posted by Hybr1d

That's stupid, why is it like that? The AI should start as the player does and have to manage their financses.

If you take away the bonuses the A.I. will be continually bankrupt. To increase realism, the EB team made building projects more expensive and seriously increased the costs of maintaining armies. However, the A.I. does not take upkeep into account: in fact, it seems more interested in recruiting units than stabilising the economy or improving their cities. Unfortunately, this behaviour cannot be modded: it's hidden somewhere in the .exe file. Hence the team has to help the A.I. by giving them money bonuses (these are not flat amounts by the way, but depend on the number of cities the A.I. owns and its financial status).

I don't know if these will be present in EB2. The M2:TW A.I. is smarter, so I hope less aid will be needed. But it's still no match for a human.

**Titus Marcellus Scato** · 09-04-2010, 11:19

The AI cheats a little on Medium and Hard campaign difficulty, but a LOT on Very Hard campaign difficulty. On Medium and Hard they get just enough of a bonus to avoid going into debt. On Very Hard, they get an extra 10,000 mnai per turn on top of that!

So Very Hard campaign difficulty is not worth playing unless you're a masochist or a blitzer. Hard level is better.

**Cute Wolf** · 09-04-2010, 14:38

Originally Posted by Titus Marcellus Scato

The AI cheats a little on Medium and Hard campaign difficulty, but a LOT on Very Hard campaign difficulty. On Medium and Hard they get just enough of a bonus to avoid going into debt. On Very Hard, they get an extra 10,000 mnai per turn on top of that!

So Very Hard campaign difficulty is not worth playing unless you're a masochist or a blitzer. Hard level is better.

as long as you didn't play at hard/very hard battle difficulty, Very hard CAMPAIGN difficulty are actually a big exploit in itself, just put some stack on the bridge and repel AI assault one by one... you'll got fullstack of gold chevroned warriors soon

**siegfriedfr** · 09-04-2010, 17:30

Originally Posted by carthage121

I'm playing a game where I'm rome and I'm at war with Arche Seluke. I checked out the graphs and it turns out their finances have been at 0 for a while, but their military power still increases. How is this possible?

I should also mention that Arche seluke is a massive empire that has recently conquered the Egyptian homeland. I'm fighting them in North Africa since they attacked my Cartheginian possesions.

Finances at zero doesnt mean zero income, it only means the AI spends everything it gains every turn. When you see the AI income skyrocket absurdly, it means they are recruiting slowly, and not building anything.

As for the money assistance, it's 20K every 4 turn if the treasury is under 5000 on season 4. Assistance "per turn" is somewhere between 300 and 2700 depending on number of turn and number of cities.

The AI doesnt cheat tho, but the money assistance could need some tweaking the way it works now.

**carthage121** · 09-04-2010, 23:13

The problem with that is that it assumes that the player can always get a positive income too. I'm fighting arche seluke while they are a gigantic empire, so I've produced the best legions I can and as many as I can. At this point my income is barely above 0 and I had recently surpassed arche seluke in terms of military power. The problem is that they have now surpassed me again, and they will continue to given the positive income, unless they go into such debt that 20k is not enough (my difficulty is medium, btw).

**Naliaw** · 09-04-2010, 23:43

Do you ever fight battles manually? If not, you may should try. It will help to lower your casualties ;)

And maybe you should try some naval invasions with your countless fullstacks. At least you should have some fullstacks if you play as Rome and have no income.

**carthage121** · 09-07-2010, 00:11

I have, and it worked wonders for me when I fought Carthage. Right now I have roughly 4 or 5 full stacks in north africa ready to march on the silver death. I was actually planning on a naval invasion, but the problem is getting those navies ready and having them transport my armies may give the silver death more time, and with their seemingly limitless ability to multiply their military, time is not on my side.

Bear in mind for 25 turns or so before this I had finished my war with Germania (didn't wipe them out, but they were no longer a threat) and spent the rest of the time using all my money to upgrade money-making buildings. I increased my income from 10k with a 68k army to 40k per turn, and the only reason I was so well prepared to fight the silver death is I thought I had upgraded enough and decided to upgrade my army as much as possible. I have some more mines that are going to be finished soon and bring in that lovely 5k per turn each, so I should be able to increase my military further.

So right now this is my situation: I have all of western Europe except Brittania, I have the equivalent of Germany, Denmark, and the one Scandinavian settlement. I also have all the North Africa possessions necessary, with one extra small desert settlement (those wacky Carthaginians). The silver death, from my knowledge, has almost all of Egypt (they are reduced to almost nothing) and all the original possessions of the silver death. My thinking is to try a sea invasion taking Alexandria and the southern part of the holy land.