The RAM and XP question

[frogbeastegg]

I really, really hope you aren't compelled to pay full retail for Win7. Work your connections! Call in favors! Make absurd promises!

The best I could manage was the discount for buying online.


So. Anyone know of a decent rough guide to 7? Looks like a lot has changed in terms of UI and function locations. There's always a tonne of useless junk to disable or remove after a windows install; a guide to that would be nice too.

[Xiahou]

So. Anyone know of a decent rough guide to 7? Looks like a lot has changed in terms of UI and function locations. There's always a tonne of useless junk to disable or remove after a windows install; a guide to that would be nice too.

There are fairly useful:
85 Windows 7 Tips, Tricks and Secrets
The Master List of Windows 7 Shortcuts

I think you'll get to like Win7 pretty quickly.

[frogbeastegg]

To answer the question of RAM and XP, I can confirm it won't see the full 4GB because it deducts video memory from the total. I just added the extra 4GB, and booted up to check it is fitted correctly. Windows tells me that I have 3.25GB of RAM. If you add my video card' memory and do a bit of leeway for error the total would be 4GB.

Now, time to reformat and install 7. I hate doing this - every single time I reinstall there's the nagging feeling that I forgot to back something up ...

[frogbeastegg]

"Your PC, simplified." They aren't lying - my PC is now so simplified it doesn't know it's a PC. Yay.

It won't install. It locks up during the early stages of 'expanding files' every single time. The furthest I have got is 24%, and that's exceptional. Yes, locks up. No, not is taking a long time to do anything. Total and complete lock up - animation stops, the cursor won't move, my DVD and HD spin down, and no matter how long I leave it nothing happens. I've left it for 35 minutes in that state and nothing happened.

I'm now looking at 2 hours of repeatedly failed installs. 6 attempts.

I've tried removing all of my RAM and only inserting my original sticks. No joy. I've tried removing it all and only adding my new sticks. No joy. I've been searching the internet for a solution. No joy. All I've got is a £100 holographic coaster and no PC. Thank heaven I have a macbook too.

What a pile of garbage

[Xiahou]

Are you completely reformatting your drive during the install or just doing a quick format? You may also want to check if your BIOS is out of date. I always hate to have to flash my BIOS, but the modern flash utilities usually make the job pretty fool proof.

EDIT: Here is a thread full of purported solutions.

[frogbeastegg]

The last BIOS update for my board dates to the time I was building my PC, so hopefully it's up to date. I'll check tomorrow.

I'm letting windows handle the reformat so I guess it is quick. I have to format every time I try to install because it detects the fraction of the OS it did manage to install and says it needs to be deleted else it will shove it into a junk folder called 'old windows'. I don't want useless fragments of broken OSs littering my PC. NB: I'm having to launch the install by setting my BIOS to boot from CD first. It wouldn't install when I tried to do it from my XP desktop as mentioned in the instruction manual. I believe that's because I have 32bit XP and was using the 64bit install disc.

I have tried installing 32bit windows 7 to see if that could narrow the problems down. It did exactly the same thing.

I've checked my hardware on the compatibility site. It's ok.

I've read through a load of threads from that site, but not that linked one. Found a couple of things to try overall - RAM settings tweaks (currently on defaults) and so on, and that hypertransport thingy mentioned in your topic. Ejecting the CD is something simple to try too; someone said it worked for them.

:sigh: Why on earth should it be so difficult? I have standard hardware in a standard enough configuration, and I've never had any problems installing windows since 3.1. It's one of the few things I can hand on heart say it has always got right.

[Husar]

Hmm, I don't remember trying to move the mouse, I'm not even sure there was a cursor but I remember it stood for a very long time at a certain percentage for me, too.
You might want to try leaving it for 2 hours instead of "just" 35 minutes. If that doesn't help and it really locks up then hmm, I'd suspect either a problem with the disc or your hardware, which would be weird considering it ran fine before. Perhaps you could get a replacement for the disc and see whether that works(I've had a disc of a game replaced before because it didn't install, turned out to be a problem with my DVD drive in the end though that was only there with that disc and maybe one other disc)?

[frogbeastegg]

Fixed it. What a nightmare.

Yup, it was definitely locked up. Dead as a door nail. I could have left it forever and it wouldn't have gotten any further. It was as obvious as could be - the cursor wouldn't move, the progress dots stopped, the DVD drive and my hard drive span down to idle mode and there it sat. Didn't even bat an eyelid when I ejected the disc.

So what did fix it? I tried a few things from that link, and my third selection from that list was the tip about disabling speedstep in my BIOS. Once I did that it installed the entire thing in 20 minutes flat. How terribly, terribly stupid; it should never have been a problem and Microsoft should have made sure their fancy new OS with much-touted advanced processor support actually supported the basic features of those CPUs. I'll re-enable it tomorrow, put back the rest of my RAM, and try to get this machine into working order.

I can't find a thing! I can't even find where to get the basic overview of my PC's tech stats so I can check the RAM is being detected. And how can I make the fuzzy text go away? It's using the correct resolution and downloaded drivers for my video card so I don't see the immediate cause.

For now I need to sleep. I'm shattered and have to be up for work tomorrow.

[naut]

For the sake of future information - I'll have to go windows 7 eventually - does it have the same effect as vista and break nearly everything that existed prior to its launch? Or did they include decent backwards compatibility this time? Also, would I be able to use directx9 in it?

It's does break a number of programs. Howeve, get Win7 Pro x64. It comes with an XP mode that enables greater compatibility.

[Lemur]

A bit late to the party, Psychonaut; she already bought and installed her version of Win7.

[Tellos Athenaios]

All your administrative utilities are in the Control Panel, but you'll probably be using the search box in the Start Menu a lot as a more direct route to whatever it is you want to use/run. Basic settings like theme can be accessed by right clicking the desktop. It's also worth setting up the start menu to your liking, IIRC that's done via right clicking the taskbar and selecting the appropriate option.

[rory_20_uk]

Pleased to hear you're going for Win 7. You'll never look back.

[naut]

A bit late to the party, Psychonaut; she already bought and installed her version of Win7.

Doh. Did the same thing with my brother, told him to get Win7 Pro, but he'd already made the purchase.

[Husar]

I can't find a thing!

You like sandbox games, don't you? Well, this is your new one.

Otherwise, what Tellos said, it's different from XP, but that's the point, if it were the same you'd wonder why they made you pay that much for it, the search function in the start menu is really quite nice, you should try it.

[frogbeastegg]

Ok, just back and started on finishing my setup. So far not much of as windows 7 fan - it's giving me trouble at every step.

First item on the list: restore boot order to HD only, enable speedstep. Done.

First program on my list: firewall. The PC locked up at 46% installed. Gah! Two questions: What's the problem with speedstep? How on earth can I delete the partial install of zonealarm? The installer won't let me install over the top of the old one, and I don't want to make things more broken by deleting the folder.

Next job on the list: get firefox running so I can ditch IE, which is slow, painful, blurry, scrolls randomly, is awkward to navigate, glitchy, and hideous in all imaginable ways and forms. Problem: firefox won't detect my internet connection. IE does, as I'm here right now.

Help please.

Psychonaut the XP mode is useless for my needs. It's for business programs only and can't run anything I actually own.

[Beskar]

Other than "Zone Alarm? Are you mad?!" (which could also be the problem for firefox, since it is a hideous programme), I don't understand what you are doing to cause problems.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Part of the firewall troubles could be in that Windows 7 already comes with a firewall of its own aptly named “Windows Firewall”. So you probably can ditch Zone Alarm and use Windows Firewall instead, or alternatively disable Windows Firewall entirely (which I have never done, but should be possible through the Installed Software thing of the Control Panel). Incidentally uninstalling software can be done through that panel as well.

[Husar]

Exactly, I've heard mostly about problems with regards to ZoneAlarm, I use the Windows firewall as well, seems to work just fine.

Concerning speed step, I have an AMD phenom with some NVidia chipset and it doesn't adjust CPU speed in either Windows Vista or 7, neither did my old Core 2 Duo E6600. Vista introduced some new way of energy and speed management and apparently those motherboards are incompatible. I would guess that your mainboard might be incompatible as well but instead of just running at full speed all the time actually causes some problems, perhaps it does change the clock speed without windows knowing about it (due to incompatible interfaces or so), causing such lockups, or perhaps something is actually broken that wasn't really used in XP (like whatever is responsible for speedstep to work in Windows 7). I'm just guessing here, I have no detailed knowledge about this, but the whole deal works fine on my laptop that came with Vista preinstalled, I'd suspect and incompatibility of some sort, or maybe a "minor" flaw(minor as in doesn't prevent the PC from running at all), the USB and network ports on my laptop seem to crash out of nowhere sometimes, other days they work fine for hours, one of the reasons I won't buy MSI anymore.

[caravel]

Firefox may be getting blocked from accessing the internet by Zonealarm. Zonealarm is crapware, get rid that first.

Try the removal tool: http://download.zonealarm.com/bin/fr...cpes_clean.exe

If that doesn't work then something like this should be able to remove it: http://www.appremover.com/

Reboot after removal.

[frogbeastegg]

Phew. Lots of work. Some solutions, some new issues, lots of learning, and I've managed to find a whole 2 things I like about the entire OS.

Did a system restore to take me back to the fresh install stage. Then I approached matters in a slightly different order. Full windows updates first, reboot, install antivirus, install firefox, check it works, install a few other bits and bobs, everything was fine. Well, except for the fuzzy text, firefox insisting on starting in safe mode and discarding my preferences every time, and a few dozen other annoyances, plus the fact I'm wandering the interface like a lost tourist minus map and phrase book.

Fixed the fuzzy text (font smoothing!) after about an hour of option hunting, fixed the firefox stuck in safemode thing after loads more work, finally made some of the folder and data presentation options less obnoxious, did yet more updates, moved a few backup files from the old PC over to this one, tried out the new version of media player and loathed it (I liked 10; it had some features which were perfect for the way I use it) so got winamp instead as it does something similar but not quite as good as what I liked about MP10, and defragged C: very thoroughly. Phew.

Now I have a mostly working basic OS setup. After this I can try for some of the advanced stuff. Checking directx and video drivers are up to date, testing out a game, getting my writing tools set up, etc.

The two features I like? The presentation of data in the 'my computer' section. You know, the one with the bars under the HDs showing how much space is used up, what system specs are, etc. I used to have to do a bunch of clicking on several screens to get that same gather of info. The other is pinning things to the taskbar. Reminds me of a favoured feature on my macbook.

I use zonealarm because I've only had 1 problem with it in 6-7 years of use; I started using it shortly after I joined up here because it got recommended so often. It played nicely with everything else I had; I use it mainly to control programs dialing out. I'm open to recommendations for a replacement, provided the program is free.

I'll do the removal tool tomorrow. System restore should have gotten the hooks out of other files and left it as so much useless data but I don't trust system restore one bit; it's obviously improved a lot since XP's version but that's hardly saying much. I found that version to be more useful if it was left turned off!


Next question: what's the game browser like for actual use? In theory it sounds handy. In reality? Does it do a decent job of finding patches, finding the right patches, and finding them for a wide range of games instead of just the big names? Anything else useful it can do? Or is it a glorified folder which wants to be like steam?


This thing needs a manual. The little help boxes you can bring up are decent but it's not the same as being able to get a full overview of what you can do and how, then heading off to apply that base knowledge to learn more advanced stuff.

[Beskar]

Forget about the Game browser, I never used it. Some games don't even appear in it. Never used it in the 4 years of contact with it. I just disabled it.

Microsoft does have its own free anti-virus as well.

I will tell you now, for the love of everything, do not install games/steam/etc in programs. Do a folder on the harddrive you have your games on, called \Games\, for example, "C:\Games\". Other than making it very easy and helpful you have your games separate from your programs, it will save you lots of heartache, due to inbuilt Microsoft security.

[frogbeastegg]

I will tell you now, for the love of everything, do not install games/steam/etc in programs.

I run a dual hard drive setup. C: is for windows and core programs; D: gets everything else. Amazing setup which I first used by semi accident; I needed a bigger HD because DVD based games had made install sizes go through the roof overnight but did not want to lose everything in a reformat. Way back then we had a local PC shop and they were damned good. They suggested a secondary HD, I reluctantly agreed thinking it would be weird, and within a few days of use I loved it. So many advantages! Nowadays it is a flat out requirement; I will not own a PC with only one HD.

Steam and my games sat on D: untouched during this entire process. All I did was run steam.exe from that folder and it worked for a bit to repair itself; it's now fully functional and I didn't have to reinstall any games. That's a useful feature.

[Beskar]

I run a dual hard drive setup. C: is for windows and core programs; D: gets everything else. Amazing setup which I first used by semi accident; I needed a bigger HD because DVD based games had made install sizes go through the roof overnight but did not want to lose everything in a reformat. Way back then we had a local PC shop and they were damned good. They suggested a secondary HD, I reluctantly agreed thinking it would be weird, and within a few days of use I loved it. So many advantages! Nowadays it is a flat out requirement; I will not own a PC with only one HD.

Steam and my games sat on D: untouched during this entire process. All I did was run steam.exe from that folder and it worked for a bit to repair itself; it's now fully functional and I didn't have to reinstall any games. That's a useful feature.

That's good.

I did similar, but the problem I have now, Seagate want me to return the harddrive, since it is apparently faulty. The issue with that is, it is a terrabyte drive, and it is 700gigs full. My on-computer harddrive is 500gigs total.

Yeah.. not too impressed with that. They don't even send a replacement first, which I would have thought was obvious. >_>

[frogbeastegg]

:sigh: Latest problem. I have directx11 installed. Every game I try to play won't run, citing "You do not have d3dx9_41.dll installed". I've tried doing a DX update during the installation of one of these games, and it failed for unknown reasons. So now I'm left attempting a manual fix. Why can nothing in this infuriating OS just work? Every single step no matter how minor has turned into a freaking paper chase! That's why, on day 3, I'm only just beginning to install stuff like games. Gah!

Which reminds me, when I installed the patch for victoria 2 I got a useless windows nag popup telling me that windows wasn't sure if everything had gone ok because windows is a paranoid old granny with no tech sense. How can I kill that? I never want to see it again.

EDIT:GAH!! And now the directx update I attempting using microsofts own latest directx end user runtime failed instantly with no reasons given.

Much more of this and I am going to return my gaming favours to my xbox for the near future - civ 5 et al can go hang!

[frogbeastegg]

At this point the only thing keeping me from reformating and returning to XP is the money investment. I didn't buy that RAM and fork out for this torture on a fancy disc in order to use XP with an extra 1.5GB. I hate windows 7. It's a feeling which grows with each hour of use. Or should that be abuse?

Ok. Directx fixed. Another hour down the toilet with little to show for it. Yet more illogical, senseless problems fixed by doing nothing much other than repeat the same step over and over until windows realises it's meant to do something. I have to fight for every single tiny step forward and it's exhausting.

Next problem. It's simple. I want to be able to get at my games quickly and easily. Since I'm now starting to install them I want to get that solution set up and work with it as I go. Fine. No problem. Easy, right? Easier than in XP thanks to all these fancy interface improvements and that games folder and so on. Right?

No.

The games folder is useless and hasn't automatically picked up anything I've installed so far. Manually creating the shortcut is a pain in the rear. It also won't let me organise the links how I want. I want things split up by genre. I don't want some great fat mass of 50+ alpha order icons.

So how about desktop icons? I used to use them as my primary access method. Problem: default size has icons roughly the same size as the tiles on my roof. I hate large icons, and I hate cluttered desktops. So I hit google and find you you can re-size the icons by holding control and using the mouse wheel. Great, problem solved, right? No. It only applies to icons already on your desktop. New ones are still huge. Attempting to resize via ctrl+mouse affects everything equally, so everything is stuck being different sizes. Now I have to bin a bunch of icons in order to get everything back the same size.

Ok, last resort. Start menu folders. My old secondary access method. One folder called games which needs to go on the first part of the start menu, then various genre folders inside it which house links to the games. problem: can't create any folders whatsoever. Problem the second: moving the existing games folder causes windows to whine at me and delete the start menu entry when I try to use it because "It isn't in the right location" No - that's because it's where I want it!

Also, please stop using this awful, awful list view for every folder on the computer. It's hard to find things. My eyes don't like it much either. I like tiles. Tiles! That's why I always choose it. Oh, wait - in windows 7 the choice only applies to a single folder. No global setting. Or if there is it's buried somewhere daft. So I have to toggle every last folder on the machine manually, or use a view I detest.

So I can't organise my stuff at all, can't access anything quickly, and generally am running slap bang into yet more stupid, inane barriers. Now I see why steam is so popular - it's the only way I currently have to arrange anything in a half decent manner.



I'm out of patience, will, and generally don't give a damn any more. I'm out of all possible interest in playing anything on my PC or even using it for anything. It's too much trouble. Far, far more than it's worth.

And somebody please, please tell me how to get firefox to recognise English spelling. I am not interested in becoming American and I'm mighty tired of seeing it class my language as an error! It didn't do this before. I turn spellcheck off and it insists on turning itself back on. Joy. Boundless, endless joy.

[Beskar]

Also, please stop using this awful, awful list view for every folder on the computer. It's hard to find things. My eyes don't like it much either. I like tiles. Tiles! That's why I always choose it. Oh, wait - in windows 7 the choice only applies to a single folder. No global setting. Or if there is it's buried somewhere daft. So I have to toggle every last folder on the machine manually, or use a view I detest.

Right Click > Properties > Customize > Tick 'Also apply this template to all subfolders'
or alt, tools, Folder Options, for setting up things for more you like it.

As for the majority of your problems, I never experienced anything of the sort.

Did you do a clean reformat?

[frogbeastegg]

Right Click > Properties > Customize > Tick 'Also apply this template to all subfolders'
or alt, tools, Folder Options, for setting up things for more you like it.

Tried it. Doesn't work. I still get the nasty list view everywhere. In some places I don't even get the customise option.

Unless I'm doing it wrong? I right click->view->tiles. Right click again->customise->apply to all subfolders.

Did you do a clean reformat?

Yes. Reformated before the first install attempt, and a great many times after that before I managed to get the OS to install successfully. I deleted the old system partition too.

[caravel]

And somebody please, please tell me how to get firefox to recognise English spelling. I am not interested in becoming American and I'm mighty tired of seeing it class my language as an error! It didn't do this before. I turn spellcheck off and it insists on turning itself back on. Joy. Boundless, endless joy.

Go to tools add-ons, search for "dictionary" and install the British dictionary.

I don't have anything good to say about Vista/7 so

[frogbeastegg]

Go to tools add-ons, search for "dictionary" and install the British dictionary.

Let's test this out. Centre, civilisation, programme ... no red, oh true joy!

Now, to find a way to get windows to display folders how I want them and let me arrange my shortcuts. :stares at desktop: I google for instructions, try them out, and they don't work. :sigh: So often the same series of problems. Either something is missing in the chain of location instructions, or the setting doesn't change anything, or the change won't stick, or the change won't apply outside of a single location.

If I can just crack these final two points I might begin to find 7 bearable.


EDIT: here's an example. I see that to add folders to the start menu I need to go to C:\Users\USER\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Windows\S tart Menu\Programs. I can go as far as users\froggy and that's it. There's no AppData. It's not hidden either. It's just not there.

GAH! And I notice typing this that I'm back with American spelling. British dictionary add-on is still installed and running.

Why. Can. Nothing. Work?!

Ok. Had enough. Will finish reading my stuff on the internet and crawl away to play on my xbox or something.

[Xiahou]

I know it doesn't solve your problem, but I can verify that what you describe with icons being different sizes does not occur on any Win7 install I have used. For me, I can resize the icons with the CTRL+scroll method and any additional icons I place on the desktop are the same size as all the others.

On a more helpful note, for organizing desktop icons, I've become a fan of Fences. It lets you organize and hide your icons in "fences" on your desktop. You can even stuff more icons in a fence than it has area to hold and will be given a scroll bar to view them all. Might be worth a look.