I have it in mind to play a non-historical Celto-Hellenic faction in Western Europe, using the KH with mostly regional MICs. I'd like the roster to be more a local fusion than "what the KH would have recruited after they conquered Gaul", i.e. I'd like some swords to go with the spears. The units I have in mind are: South Gallic Swordsmen (Botroas), North Gallic Swordsmen (Bataroas), Gallic Heavy Swordsmen (Neitos), and the naked fanatics (Gaesatae).
I've absolutely no idea how to do this. Can anybody help, or tell me where to start looking?
Also, I have a dim memory of reading that you can't have a unit in {some part of your roster e.g. MICs} if it's also in {some other part e.g mercs}. Am I imagining that, or is there something I have to watch out for?
And finally, this not really a modding question but what the heck, what's Greek for "Celto-Hellenic League?"
Originally Posted by Morte66:
Also, I have a dim memory of reading that you can't have a unit in {some part of your roster e.g. MICs} if it's also in {some other part e.g mercs}. Am I imagining that, or is there something I have to watch out for?
What I think you are referring to are the model limits. A model can only be used by one unit-type per faction, or else the game will crash when a battle is loaded with both unit-types present. However, you can reuse the model in other factions without causing problems. For example the elite phalangite model is used for Argyraspides, Chalkaspides and the Klerouchikon Agema. Furthermore, there is a trick that allows you to reuse models within a faction: designate one of the units as mercs. In the above example: Hysteroi Pezhetairoi have the same model as Argyraspides, but because they are designated as mercs they can exist in the same faction. The downside is that this unit will use mercenary officers and standard bearers (and that you cannot use the model for a real mercenary unit). Off course, if you use the same skin for mercenary officers this won't be a problem, see for example the Roman Camillian Principes and Polybian Hastati.
AFAIK you are going to have to change the skeleton and the weapon as well. Have you checked out the
modding forums at the .Org and TWC?
Originally Posted by Ludens:
What I think you are referring to are the model limits. A model can only be used by one unit-type per faction, or else the game will crash when a battle is loaded with both unit-types present. [..] Furthermore, there is a trick that allows you to reuse models within a faction: designate one of the units as mercs.
Displays ignorance: The model is the shape, and the skin is the surface colouring? And the model is specified by the "soldier" field in export_descr_unit?
So for example I see the model celtic_infantry_botroas_southerncuroas appears twice against the gallic factions, but one is a merc unit and the other isn't so that's OK. The model is not currently used at all for greek_cities, so could I safely give them one merc and one non-merc unit with that model? That's assuming I knew how to mod MICs and merc pools...
I'm a bit stumped by entries 65 and 478 in export_descr_units i.e. the Gallic Heavy Swordsmen (Neitos) and Celtic Lesser Kings, which have the same model celtic_infantry_calawre_carnute_kleruchoi_neitos, and are both recruitable by Carthage (called "egypt" internally), whilst neither are mercs. Not sure if I've actually seen them working in the same battle, mind you. ;)
Originally Posted by :
AFAIK you are going to have to change the skeleton and the weapon as well.
Provided I avoid the duplicate model issue, I'm hoping to modify the definition of the MIC in export_descr_buildings.txt, and/or the ownership of the unit in export_descr_units.txt. And, um, anything else I need to do but don't know about.
Originally Posted by
:
Have you checked out the modding forums at the .Org and TWC?
Yep. They're clear as mud, but I can probably cope. I'm more bothered about EB-specific stuff, e.g. what are all those resources in export_descr_buildings that are needed to recruit certain units? If I try to add the Neitos to KH by just adjusting/copying a Carthage entry, and it turns out that some resource is actually the "The Carthaginian Reforms", KH recruiting will not be so great.
{edit} Ah-ha, I found descr_regions.txt, which appears to have these resources where I would expect them to be, so they're static and global. I might get away with this...
So I see an entry
Code:
army_barracks_V1 requires factions { egypt, saba, } and building_present_min_level government gov4 and not building_present_min_level government gov1
[...]
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource A and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource A and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource y8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource A and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource C and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource y8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource y8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource y8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource C and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource n2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource y8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource C and hidden_resource n1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
recruit "celtic infantry neitos" 0 requires factions { egypt, } and hidden_resource NW and hidden_resource A and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource n4 and hidden_resource n8
... and I think it's a Carthage/Saba level 4 regional MIC, which is allowing Carthage (known as "egypt,") but not Saba to recruit Neitos when one of several combinations of hidden resources are met. I could basically paste this into the equivalent KH/Epeiros MIC and change "egypt," to "greek_cities," and hope that it works.
{edit} And check it out with some judicious use of cheat codes before playing.
Finn MacCumhail 21:27 08-17-2010
just my 2 cents. using Alex solves limit problem (but couses other). then just find CAS file needed and do copy paste, rename it to Neithos for KH or whatever. that is it, I think. you can also draw new texture. though I dunno how to do all stuff with txt files
Originally Posted by Morte66:
Displays ignorance: The model is the shape, and the skin is the surface colouring? And the model is specified by the "soldier" field in export_descr_unit?
Yes, that is my understanding.
Originally Posted by :
So for example I see the model celtic_infantry_botroas_southerncuroas appears twice against the gallic factions, but one is a merc unit and the other isn't so that's OK. The model is not currently used at all for greek_cities, so could I safely give them one merc and one non-merc unit with that model? That's assuming I knew how to mod MICs and merc pools...
In case it isn't clear: giving a unit the mercenary attribute in the EDU does not mean it is recruitable as a merc in game. It's just a trick to allow two unit-types with the same model in a battle. If neither of the mentioned unit is recruitable as a merc, then yes, you can use them both.
Originally Posted by :
I'm a bit stumped by entries 65 and 478 in export_descr_units i.e. the Gallic Heavy Swordsmen (Neitos) and Celtic Lesser Kings, which have the same model celtic_infantry_calawre_carnute_kleruchoi_neitos, and are both recruitable by Carthage (called "egypt" internally), whilst neither are mercs. Not sure if I've actually seen them working in the same battle, mind you. ;)
Can't help you there, I am afraid.
Originally Posted by :
Provided I avoid the duplicate model issue, I'm hoping to modify the definition of the MIC in export_descr_buildings.txt, and/or the ownership of the unit in export_descr_units.txt. And, um, anything else I need to do but don't know about.
You need a faction-specific skin for the units as well, but I think that's it. Changing the weapon and animation is going to be the biggest problem.
Originally Posted by :
Yep. They're clear as mud, but I can probably cope. I'm more bothered about EB-specific stuff, e.g. what are all those resources in export_descr_buildings that are needed to recruit certain units? If I try to add the Neitos to KH by just adjusting/copying a Carthage entry, and it turns out that some resource is actually the "The Carthaginian Reforms", KH recruiting will not be so great.
The resources are there to identify the provinces. There are not related to reforms AFAIK. So yes, you can copy the entry of another unit and replace unit-name and or faction-ownership, and place it in the correct barracks.
Originally Posted by Ludens:
{On Neitos and Cletic Lesser Kings} Can't help you there, I am afraid.
I think the general tag must work like the merc tag. Otherwise you couldn't have Hellenic Distinguished Hoplites in the same battle as KH FMs, since they share a model. For that matter in a Massalian game a few weeks ago I modded the KH bodyguards to use the Massalian Hoplite model with beefed up stats, and had them lined up next to each other in battle quite happily.
Originally Posted by :
You need a faction-specific skin for the units as well, but I think that's it. Changing the weapon and animation is going to be the biggest problem.
Not sure why I need skins and animations to make an existing unit recruitable, provided I avoid the duplicate model thing by just giving up on any units which would have duplicate models. AFAICS there aren't any model clashes -- after all, I'm adding these units to the KH roster because the KH don't have anything like them.
I wonder if we're talking at cross-purposes: I'm not making a non-historical mod for release (it would give the EB team conniptions LOL), this is just for me to play. I don't care if the Celto-Hellenic Union's Botroas look exactly like the Aedui/Arverni Botroas.
Originally Posted by :
The resources are there to identify the provinces. There are not related to reforms AFAIK. So yes, you can copy the entry of another unit and replace unit-name and or faction-ownership, and place it in the correct barracks.
That's a relief.
Thanks for the help, I'll get into this later today.
Originally Posted by Morte66:
Not sure why I need skins and animations to make an existing unit recruitable, provided I avoid the duplicate model thing by just giving up on any units which would have duplicate models. AFAICS there aren't any model clashes -- after all, I'm adding these units to the KH roster because the KH don't have anything like them.
My apologies: I misinterpreted your "swords to go with spears" comment as wanting to change their weapon. If you are just reusing the unit, then changing the weapon and animations is unnecessary.
As for the skin: I recall that the game requires a separate skin file for every faction that can recruit the unit, even when the actual skins are the same. Check this, though, because it's been ages since I modded units.
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