What would an authentic Bosphoran Kingdom army look like?

[QuintusSertorius]

I'm considering a third migrated faction game (Epeiros as the Bosphoran Kingdom), but I've no idea how the Bosphorans fought. It'll surprise no one when I say that I like the Hellenic troop roster, especially when mixed with regional troops to flavour and vary things.

I'm guessing from the troops available that it's a mixture of Hellenic and steppe units, though I'm struggling a little to imagine how horse archers would work together with infantry. What would be in a 14-unit stack?

How would you deal with Sauromatae horse archer armies? I've avoided them up to this point, opponents who you can't catch sound like an exercise in frustration. There's some foot archers with even longer range who'd integrate well into a regular army, but would they be the target of every enemy horse archer?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

I'd say your horse archers would perform a similiar task to Hippakontistai light skirmisher cavalry (but a lot better, obviously.)

Epirote units that should be useful on the steppe:

Hoplitai Haploi - cheap, effective garrison units - town square defenders.
Sphendonetai (Hellenic Slingers) - cheap AP missile unit to counter armoured Sauro FM's at long range, and as front-line arrow fodder.
Peltastai (Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers) - fast moving skirmisher to target armoured Sauro FM's at short range, with decent melee capability against foot archers as well. Armour helps them resist arrow fire.
Thureophoroi - fast-moving medium infantry with both javelins and spears to fight off enemy cavalry. Good for guarding archers and slingers with.
Prodromoi (Successor Medium Cavalry) - fast-moving melee cavalry with good chance of catching enemy horse archers if used well.

[A_Dane]

I've just started such a campaign, although I use Pontos instead :)

What I've found usefull, is to avoid open combat like the plague. Get some archers, (prefferably the Bosphoran heavy archers), and something like Thuerepois, or classical hoplites. Now let them come to you, the only heavy units they got, are their cav, and if you can deny the cav access to your cities, you don't have to worry. Yesterday, i managed to repel 2.2k with just 700 men, simply because my 1 unit of thurepoi, 2 units of bosphoran heavy archers, and a unite of hellenic native spearmen, slaughtered anything that got close :) If they had gained entrance to the city, I'd have been dead. Those bodyguards they got are nasty, and they had 2 groups of noble horse archers and roxoliani riders. Thankfully those got picked off by the machine gun towers... would of completely trashed me :)

(sadly, the game crashed on me)

[Burebista]

Epirote units that should be useful on the steppe:

Peltastai (Hellenic Heavy Skirmishers) - fast moving skirmisher to target armoured Sauro FM's at short range, with decent melee capability against foot archers as well. Armour helps them resist arrow fire.
Prodromoi (Successor Medium Cavalry) - fast-moving melee cavalry with good chance of catching enemy horse archers if used well.

These would be in the cathegory of " not to be used " . peltastai are dead against steppe with no2 shield & sword. Prodromoi...dead...fast...money wasted. Get foot archers and make a spearmen line in front of them to protect them and most problems go away.

Also , it is well in your power to create a HA army of yourself and destroy Sauromatae with their own weapons but more money.

[Ludens]

There is a serious death of sources concerning the Bosphoran kingdom, so I doubt we know what kind of armies they fielded. Given their position at the edge of the steppe, I'd say it would be similar to the Bactrians: emphasis on cavalry (heavier and more disciplined than their steppe opponents) supplemented by hired or allied horse and foot archers.

[Ca Putt]

These would be in the cathegory of " not to be used " . peltastai are dead against steppe with no2 shield & sword. Prodromoi...dead...fast...money wasted. Get foot archers and make a spearmen line in front of them to protect them and most problems go away.

agree on pletastai, probably the least usefull unit in the steppes, not a bad unit altogether but terrible in the steppes, use Bosphoran archers or, if you have to, thureophoroi instead they are much more usefull.
Prodromoi are not that bad against steppe troops, they are just that half of your army that should avoid being hit by arrows^^ actually the idea of a light-medium lancer in the steppes is not bad at all(see saka/bactrian medium cav) still I think "european" alternatives like getic cav, leuche epos and Illyrians are more cost efficient here, tho, sadly not availible so Lonchophoroi should be a good idea as they have a large shield.
personally I'd go for a core of Hellens and max the same amount of Nomadic troops. wheras the Hellens would include a rather large amout of archers and Cavalry, for a hellenic army that is ;)
oh not to forget HAs with spears and Scythian cav both quite usefull against AI HAs.

that's just my idea of a bosphoran army, EB2 will reveal what the EB thinks of them

[gamegeek2]

The citizens of the Bosporas were very rich; in early times the citizens, when they went to war, fought in full bronze hoplite regalia; later they would be an effective medium-heavy cavalry force, equipped much like Sarmatian nobles, though their equipment would be of higher quality.

Scythians would be employed as mercenaries, and an elite force of 'picked' Scythian cavalry is mentioned in at least one battle. They had a good amount of professional thureos-equipped infantry and cavalry, with Thorakites-style infantry become more prominent with Roman influence.

In essence, what Ludens said - cavalry was very important to their armies, with a substantial force of thureos-armed infantry and cavalry.

[Ludens]

I'm guessing from the troops available that it's a mixture of Hellenic and steppe units, though I'm struggling a little to imagine how horse archers would work together with infantry. What would be in a 14-unit stack?

How would you deal with Sauromatae horse archer armies? I've avoided them up to this point, opponents who you can't catch sound like an exercise in frustration. There's some foot archers with even longer range who'd integrate well into a regular army, but would they be the target of every enemy horse archer?

I've been thinking about this for a bit. My impression is that steppe armies relied on harassment rather than direct fire-power. Even in set-piece battles they used a cycle of high-speed attacks and retreat. I doubt that they were able to score many hits (and casualties), but their targets would suffer a continuous barrage of arrows while being unable to strike back. This is terrifying even for experienced warriors, so the end result is that the target is goaded either into attacking or retreating. If the attack is coordinated, the horse archers simply fall back. If the attack is uncoordinated, they surround and cut down any groups that get separated from the main army.

In other words: to fight a steppe army you need to stop thinking in terms of "holding the field". The nomads don't care about the "field": the steppe is huge and they do not rely on agriculture. For a nomad, the most important thing is survival. He is not fighting for land, or glory, but to ensure that he, his family and his tribe make it through the next winter. The harassment tactics are part of that: they rely on persistence rather than damage and minimize exposure to enemy weapons. Countering these by recruiting foot archers or employing horse-archers of your own is quite likely to make steppe armies back down. They are not in it to demonstrate their superiority. Even moderate causalities can severely affect a tribe's ability to protect their land, and survive the winter, so they simply avoid risky targets.

So that explains how horse archers were integrated into settled armies: they were used as a screen to protect the heavy cavalry and (if present) infantry from being constantly harassed by hit-and-run tactics. None of these concepts translate very well to the TW engine though, so attempting to simulate history here will be very difficult.

Another element that cannot be simulated well is logistics. Steppe armies do not use supply lines or bases: their camps and herds travel with the army. (Or should I say that they are the army? Nomad society does not have a distinction between military and civilian.) In this, they can outlast and outmanoeuvre settled armies. However, this bare-bones approach to logistics brings its own problems: if they herds are threatened, the nomads have to back down since their survival depends on it. Also, they derive their superior mobility and endurance from their horses (every steppe warrior worth his salt has several to serve as remounts during battle), but these do require large amounts of grass. The nomads themselves may have very basic needs, but their herds and horses require them to move constantly. Again, this is not something that can be simulated properly in TW.

[rotten]

Well, I'll give it a shot, based on what the above people have said and the limitations of the game.

2 family members, also serving as your meh-grade heavy cavalry
1 Hippeis
2 scythian horse archers
4 foot archers (mix of locals and hellenes, no elites)
1 Sphendonetai
2 ekdromoi hoplitai
2 hoplitai haploi
1 epilektoi hoplitai
1 hoplitai (classic)

I don't really know how the Bosphoran greeks mixed their armies, but it seems reasonable to suggest that they'd use a combination of local tactics and good old greek hoplite stuff. The ekdromoi seem appropriate imo because they are one of the few hoplite types that have a prayer of cornering horse archers (with help).

As you can see, no akontistai/hippokontistai. Two reasons: 1. I don't like them and 2. they'd be utterly useless in the steppes, at least hoplites have shields and helmets that protect them well against arrows. And why offer arrow fodder when you don't need to?

edit: maybe skip the haploi if they were so rich, make it 3 ekdromoi and 2 classics instead.

[Ca Putt]

so you go for the more traditional way without any thuro-users? definately a way to get a consistent army :)

tho I doubt the nobles of the krim would fight on foot rather than on horseback so imho epilektoi could be replaced with hippeis, Lonchophoroi, Xystophoroi, prodromoi, aspidophoroi(this is getting boring) or even a unit of scythian nobles.
for a rich poleis like yours 1 hoplitai seems a bit few I'd replace at least one of the haploi with them,
BUT as Haploi are not the worst thing to have when ... well actually all the time... you could use them in secondary armies or garrisons

[vollorix]

Everything with the armor under 10 is cannon fodder for HA, in my experience. The only "hoplite like" infantry unit really capable of resisting them is, aside from Classical Hoplites", Thorakitai - normally i only manage to kill them from uphill shooting at their backs. The large shield doesn´t really help you, since it´s the tactics of the HA to surround you, and even AI seems to know that quite well. Once the enemy HA are out of ammunition, and tired, you can send your Prodromoi to finish them off.
But in any case: if you´d be a Lord of a Bosporian Kingdom, would you try to fight a mobile and swift mounted enemy with some infantry, or would you adjust and fight fire with fire? ;)

[QuintusSertorius]

Not only that, levy hoplites are garrison troops, not for actual field armies.

I wouldn't use Koinon Hellenon, they serve an actual purpose in Greece. It's Epeiros who are disposable and thus the easiest to migrate.

[athanaric]

Everything with the armor under 10 is cannon fodder for HA, in my experience. The only "hoplite like" infantry unit really capable of resisting them is, aside from Classical Hoplites", Thorakitai - normally i only manage to kill them from uphill shooting at their backs. The large shield doesn´t really help you, since it´s the tactics of the HA to surround you, and even AI seems to know that quite well.

Indeed, Thorakitai are the bane of all horse units. They combine the advantages of Classical Hoplites with those of barbarian spearmen. I really hate to fight them, but I love to field them myself.