Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 84

Thread: ProjectileStats

  1. #1
    Member Member PatrickNeil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    91

    Question

    Has anyone edited "ProjectileStats.txt" yet? When the patch is installed it turns up in the main folder. Seems to allow projectiles to be edited. I've wanted to make like, a missle launcher or something, and this seem to have everything one would need.

    Just wondering if anyones tested this file out yet, and to get the disucssion on it going.

    Patrick

  2. #2
    Member Member V'ger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oxon Hill, MD. USA
    Posts
    103

    Cool

    Hi,

    Yes, I've changed a few things in there. Not sure if all of them work correctly or not, yet. I upped the range of bows, longbows, trebuchets and mangonels. I also changed it so that trebs and mangs can pivot. That part works, I know.
    Write, edit. I've got the pen.
    V'ger gone.

  3. #3
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default

    Take care when upping the range of the longbows.

    I upped them to 7500 (well 120 meters is not much, 150 meters much better), but then the Longbowmen could not angle the arrows high enough to actually fire them. So they walked a short distance and tried again, again and again. So I set the Velocity to 180 (up from 150) that flattened the trajectory a bit.

    I also upped the shortbows and the mounted bows to 5500.

    Upped the LB Accuracy to 0.75 (from 0.6) and Lethality to 0.95 (up from 0.63).
    Normal bows Accuracy to 0.70 and Letality to 0.75.
    Mounted bows Accuracy to 0.6 (from 0.4) and Letality to 0.75.
    But I did this just today so I haven't really noticed too much of a difference, but the range is good.

    Also gave both Nahptas and javelins a slight up in range so they actually can be used with Skirmish on.

    I also gave all dedicated archers 48 arrows (up from 28) and hybrid units (such as Ottomans and Jannisary Inf) stayed at 28.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  4. #4
    Member Member Fearless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London, Great Britain
    Posts
    272

    Default

    what file do I look in to increase the arrows?

  5. #5
    Member Member V'ger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oxon Hill, MD. USA
    Posts
    103

    Cool

    Hi,

    You'll find ammo (arrows) in the crusader_prod11.txt file. Just look for ammo and then edit the appropriate units.
    Write, edit. I've got the pen.
    V'ger gone.

  6. #6
    CA CA GilJaysmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Creative Assembly / Littlehampton
    Posts
    884

    Default

    A couple of notes on the projectiles file:

    Range is the range within which the shooting cursor turns green (modified by the relative height of the firing unit and the target point). If the shooting cursor is green then the unit can attempt to fire, but all that means is that the individual men start to look for targets and firing solutions.

    Velocity is what determines the actual maximum range. If I remember rightly, the maximum range is the velocity squared and then divided by four, or thereabouts.

    In practice we use Range to limit the firing range of projectiles which are fired at high speed: compare the stats for arrows and crossbow bolts to see this in action.

    TryHigh determines whether the firer can try a plunging shot if the flat shot is blocked. (For most shots there are two firing solutions, one flat and one high, either side of 45 degrees).

    The comment about minAngle and maxAngle is wrong... it says that 64 is straight up, but actually these numbers are in degrees, so 0 is flat and 90 is straight up. (We have numerous internal camera and angle systems - one comment in the source code reads "Murder on the Orientation Express" - and one of them translates a full circle into 256 units, thus 90 degrees is 64 units.)

    Any other questions, fire away (ahem).

    Gil ~ CA
    Gil ~ CA

    This Panda

  7. #7
    Member Member Fearless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London, Great Britain
    Posts
    272

    Default

    Thank you V'ger looks like I shall be a little busy this weekend tweaking the projectiles. I have always felt that the casulties were rather low. A thankyou also Giljaysmith for your threepence worth

  8. #8

    Default

    Increased the longbows rate of fire a little. Apparently, at their longer range, a good longbowman could have up to four arrows in the air at once.
    Don't forget, these guys had to train on a daily basis by law during peacetime.

  9. #9
    Member Member Fearless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    London, Great Britain
    Posts
    272

    Default

    Hey Caledfwlch I see your a Senior Patron......How come with only 15 posts. Who did you Bribe?

  10. #10
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Nov. 14 2002,04:22)]Range is the range within which the shooting cursor turns green (modified by the relative height of the firing unit and the target point). If the shooting cursor is green then the unit can attempt to fire, but all that means is that the individual men start to look for targets and firing solutions.

    Velocity is what determines the actual maximum range. If I remember rightly, the maximum range is the velocity squared and then divided by four, or thereabouts.

    In practice we use Range to limit the firing range of projectiles which are fired at high speed: compare the stats for arrows and crossbow bolts to see this in action.

    TryHigh determines whether the firer can try a plunging shot if the flat shot is blocked. (For most shots there are two firing solutions, one flat and one high, either side of 45 degrees).

    The comment about minAngle and maxAngle is wrong... it says that 64 is straight up, but actually these numbers are in degrees, so 0 is flat and 90 is straight up. (We have numerous internal camera and angle systems - one comment in the source code reads "Murder on the Orientation Express" - and one of them translates a full circle into 256 units, thus 90 degrees is 64 units.)

    Any other questions, fire away (ahem).

    Gil ~ CA
    Thanks Gil... Now I know I can set the LB Velocity to 175... Would prefer that as 180 is far too fast, and a far too shallow angle.

    But what do you mean about comparing teh stats for arrows and crossbow bolts? It is possible to send bolts out to a range of 15600, what that what you meant?

    About try high... when does that apply? In melee for instance or does friendly units not count as something blockin? 57 degrees is not much, it would send normal bows (at 5000) out to a range of about 4000...
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  11. #11

    Default

    Don't know Fearless, still quite chuffed though. At least now I can take a more active part in the Dungeon.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Elephant Free State
    Posts
    1,638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (GilJaysmith @ Nov. 14 2002,04:22)]The comment about minAngle and maxAngle is wrong... it says that 64 is straight up, but actually these numbers are in degrees, so 0 is flat and 90 is straight up. (We have numerous internal camera and angle systems - one comment in the source code reads "Murder on the Orientation Express" - and one of them translates a full circle into 256 units, thus 90 degrees is 64 units.)

    Any other questions, fire away (ahem).

    Gil ~ CA
    Gil,
    when you say it's wrong, do you mean
    that if I put 90 I will get 90 degrees?

    Or do you mean the 64 will give me
    straight up and just the definition
    is faulty in that it does not explain this?


    Thanks
    LK
    I hope this one hits home.
    Btw is this a real word "computationally"

  13. #13

    Talking

    Kraxis,

    Opps. Edited after clarification by GilJaysmith below.




    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  14. #14
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default

    Yeah I remember sevearal battles where I found bodies far behind the battleareas (in STW).

    I kind of expected the Arbs to make kills behind the targets as well, while not as bad. But I don't seem to see any kills in numbers more than 3 if the target is not intended. Behind the target I have yet to see kills, so perhaps there is a perameter that lowers lethality beyond the target.

    I must say I'm rather sad that the Longbows have to have such a high Velocity, it lowers their lethality... I thought it would go up, but apparently not...

    I did a test with a fully shielded Hospitaller Foot Knights unit. That was with speed 200, and all the arrows hit a very low angle, and because of the increased Accuracy I could hear a massive *CLANG* every time a volley hit. That made me wonder if the Lethality was too small, as only one or two would fall every time.

    By the way, were the Longbows lowered in rate to make them more durable? The 4 cycles of animations is the same for all bows.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  15. #15

    Default

    Kraxis,

    I think lethality is a constant. You might get reduced effectiveness of archers at short range as you raise the speed parameter. That was what happened in WE/MI, due to the tendency of the archer to overshoot the target on low trajectories. At long range, you have reduced kills because the positional error due to accuracy is greater. I think you have to increase the accuracy to maintain the same kills/volley at longer range. That will help make up for the lost effectiveness at short range as well.




    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  16. #16
    Magister Vitae Senior Member Kraxis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Frederiksberg, Denmark
    Posts
    7,129

    Default

    Well, my tests have showed that my modded Longbows now kill a lot more than before in the span of the unit closing with them, but not impossibly much. The range obviously adds a lot to this but I changed the other stats enough to let every volley kill as many as before (and perhaps more).
    One positive sideeffect of the higher speed is lesser overshooting of advancing units.

    But I'm sure that Lethality is the way to increase the killrate if you up speed, that is where the x-bows and arbs are vastly different from bows. Also it is limited how much you can up accuracy, you can ony make every arrow hit, but you can theoretically make every arrow kill two men.
    You may not care about war, but war cares about you!


  17. #17

    Default

    Kraxis,

    How can one arrow kill two men?

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  18. #18
    CA CA GilJaysmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Creative Assembly / Littlehampton
    Posts
    884

    Default

    There's no limit on how far a projectile will travel if it has a high enough velocity. This and the value of gravity and the angle at which it's fired determine its trajectory; the first solid thing it hits will stop it.

    E.g. crossbows have a range of 5000 and a velocity of 250 whereas longbows have a range of 6000 and a velocity of 150. Therefore, longbow units will be able to start firing earlier at an approaching target, but crossbow bolts will travel further. On the other hand, longbows can 'try high', while crossbows can't. So if there's something in the way, e.g. a building or wall, longbows can try a high angle.

    (To clarify for whoever asked this: you use 90 to mean straight up and 0 to mean flat in these angles. The comment is wrong in the sense that the projectile code doesn't use the 0-64 angle system, it uses proper degrees.)

    When someone wants to take a shot, they try the 'low' firing solution. The code projects 24 frames along this solution to see what it hits. If it hits the intended target (or doesn't hit anything) then it assumes this solution will be OK, and takes the shot. If it hits anything during this 24-frame lookahead, the shooter will evaluate the 'high' firing solution if the projectile type allows it. The same lookahead is performed and if the projectile still doesn't look like it'll hit the target then the shooter doesn't take the shot. This is why you often see shooters going into their 'firing' animation but nothing being fired.

    The 'low' firing solution relies on using the projectile's speed to get it to the target before it hits the ground. The 'high' solution relies on 'plunging' the projectile. The shooter will only use a firing solution if it's within the min and max angles for that projectile type, e.g. longbowmen won't fire any steeper than 57 degrees into the air.

    Just a little glimpse of the magic :)

    Gil ~ CA
    Gil ~ CA

    This Panda

  19. #19

    Default

    Ok. Thanks for clarification on that Gil.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  20. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Elephant Free State
    Posts
    1,638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ](To clarify for whoever asked this: you use 90 to mean straight up and 0 to mean flat in these angles. The comment is wrong in the sense that the projectile code doesn't use the 0-64 angle system, it uses proper degrees.)
    Thank's Gil

    Lord Krazy

  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Elephant Free State
    Posts
    1,638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Nov. 15 2002,10:22)]Kraxis,

    How can one arrow kill two men?
    Is this a trick question

    LK

  22. #22

    Talking

    Lord Krazy,

    Kraxis said one arrow can kill two men. I don't see how that is possible.

    _________Designed to match Original STW gameplay.


    Beta 8 + Beta 8.1 patch + New Maps + Sound add-on + Castles 2

  23. #23
    Lost Ashigaru Member Whitey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    W. Hampstead NW6
    Posts
    1,083

    Default

    unless the stats are changed to arrows penetrate humans (like seige weapon missiles)
    Have you seen the fnords?

  24. #24
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Elephant Free State
    Posts
    1,638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Nov. 17 2002,08:14)]Lord Krazy,

    Kraxis said one arrow can kill two men. I don't see how that is possible.
    He said
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]you can theoretically make every arrow kill two men.
    I don't know what the theory is

    LK

  25. #25
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Elephant Free State
    Posts
    1,638

    Default

    Btw it says the name is only for a reference
    in regards to the projectile.
    This to me, implies you can change it.

    Also has anyone used ningastars?

    LK

  26. #26

    Default

    So where is the link between 'MTLG' in the crusaders file and the table entry for 'mountedlongbow' in projectile stats.txt ? How are these two coupled?

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member Lord Krazy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Elephant Free State
    Posts
    1,638

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Latro @ Nov. 18 2002,06:55)]So where is the link between 'MTLG' in the crusaders file and the table entry for 'mountedlongbow' in projectile stats.txt ? How are these two coupled?
    If you open it in excel
    row 53
    mountedlongbow

    after shortbow
    before arquebus

    It is the fourth row of stats.
    they seem to be linked by order not by name.
    so you could call it a neutron bomb if you wanted.
    This is conjecture based on the what it said
    about names in the names description.
    if you want a real answere wait for Gil
    to reply.

    LK

  28. #28
    CA CA GilJaysmith's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Creative Assembly / Littlehampton
    Posts
    884

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Lord Krazy @ Nov. 18 2002,10:55)]It is the fourth row of stats.
    they seem to be linked by order not by name.
    so you could call it a neutron bomb if you wanted.
    Yep, the projectile stats are in the same order as the projectile type enum, so MLTG (for example) translates to a particular row in projectilestats.txt. Swap the rows around to get some amusing results.

    Gil ~ CA
    Gil ~ CA

    This Panda

  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    7,093

    Default

    and if you really want a hoot, raise the range of naptha throwers to about 20000 and their elevation angle to about 75 and increase significantly their destructive perimeter. nothing like good old napalm to thwart an enemy :)

    K.

  30. #30
    Member Member scsscsfanfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Adelaide, Australia
    Posts
    145

    Default

    will there be anyway to add new porjectile types?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO