What now?

[Joe18]

I have started a campaign with Makedonia and i did what everyone says to do: Build roads, trade ports etc. But my finances are not improving, since Korinthos and Sparte, which i captured, are going minus no matter what i do. All of my cities slowly but steadily decrease their income and i can't raise taxes anymore. Plus i can't build an army because i don't have the mnai and when i try to build units then the city loses income. The Epeirotes are pressing and i i am just holding on without the ability to attack too. What have i done wrong. Is there a guide for 1.2 Makedonia? I have read the 0.8 version and the results are the above.

[Lysimachos]

First of all, no city ever loses money. The figure shown on the campaign map just takes in acount the upkeep of your units, which is divided between your cities according to their population (a large city pays a larger share of the upkeep than a small city), so it may seem as if your more populated cities lost money, although they actually don't.

Could you perhaps post a screenshot of your campaign, so we may get a better idea of what's going on? My best guess at this time would be you have too expensive troops or ships to support.

[QuintusSertorius]

You should be using cheap units (and no cavalry) for garrisons, and keeping your active army stacks to a minimum. Look out for cost-ineffective elite units (especially elite cavalry or elephants) that can be disbanded right away, along with navies if you aren't actually going to land troops anywhere in the immediate future.

[Fluvius Camillus]

If you play correctly as Makedonia there should be no need to disband any land units.

~Fluvius

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

As Makedonia, Athens should be your primary target. You need it badly and you need it fast. It is a very rich city that will solve your financial problems, unlike poor little Sparta.

[Earl of Memory]

You said you captured Korinthos and Sparte? You should try to capture Athens as soon as possible then, you'll leave the Koinon Hellenon with only one city (Rhodos... okay maybe Krete), your finances will improve, and unless you use Alex.exe or BI.exe, there's little to fear from them since RTW.exe rarely makes sea invasions, leaving your southern border safe. This way you can focus on kicking out Epeiros too, and once you're done with them you can have some peace (also look up north, the areas north of Epeiros are undeveloped but they have some of, if not, the richest Mines in the game)

[panten]

You should be using cheap units (and no cavalry) for garrisons, and keeping your active army stacks to a minimum. Look out for cost-ineffective elite units (especially elite cavalry or elephants) that can be disbanded right away, along with navies if you aren't actually going to land troops anywhere in the immediate future.

Actually, I would never disband any elephants - sure they were expensive and contributed to my lack of treasury, but they also kept me going as they won me countless victories as Epeiros and made my exhausted and decimated army still a force to be reckoned with (eliminating Makedon and the KH within 5 years of game time). Ships, sure - there's no need to keep them around. But elite units (as well as cavalry) are worth so much more than levies and if you use them well they win you wars, not just battles.

[Lysimachos]

Actually, I would never disband any elephants - sure they were expensive and contributed to my lack of treasury, but they also kept me going as they won me countless victories as Epeiros and made my exhausted and decimated army still a force to be reckoned with (eliminating Makedon and the KH within 5 years of game time). Ships, sure - there's no need to keep them around. But elite units (as well as cavalry) are worth so much more than levies and if you use them well they win you wars, not just battles.

"Use them well" is the important part. Expensive units should be in an army which is regularly fighting battles in which the elite units' superiority makes a difference. Anywhere else anything above average has no place (in the beginning).

[panten]

"Use them well" is the important part. Expensive units should be in an army which is regularly fighting battles in which the elite units' superiority makes a difference. Anywhere else anything above average has no place (in the beginning).

Absolutely. If expensive units are not fighting in the beginning they are pretty much only burning money - and chances are, there's not a lot of it. On the other hand: no matter how good one is a general, there will be losses - especially with units who have not been upgraded and are green - here elites make the difference: they effectively hold back or break the enemy and can cause massive damage to the enemy army. Keeping them around will make it easier to expand into new territories and will help to stabilize economy faster - even with the higher upkeep. And those troops are really worth it since it will take a probably long time to be able to recruit them.

[QuintusSertorius]

Actually, I would never disband any elephants - sure they were expensive and contributed to my lack of treasury, but they also kept me going as they won me countless victories as Epeiros and made my exhausted and decimated army still a force to be reckoned with (eliminating Makedon and the KH within 5 years of game time). Ships, sure - there's no need to keep them around. But elite units (as well as cavalry) are worth so much more than levies and if you use them well they win you wars, not just battles.

Long as you've got a general with a doctor-type ancillary, losses don't tend to be that bad unless you've misjudged things badly. I've never found elites generally, nor elephants specifically are worth the money. Cheapo-basic units (who courtesy of type II or type IV governments start with a chevron) with upgraded weapons and armour, handled appropriately in battle do the job. And are easily replaced if losses are bad.

I use Epeiros as a migrated faction (Pergamon in one game, Massilia in the other) where I can't get type I governments anywhere (being in Asia Minor/Thrace or Gaul) and I can't say I've ever felt a great loss not having any of their elites. Though I don't play anywhere near as quickly as you do, and I never aim to wipe any faction out.

[panten]

Long as you've got a general with a doctor-type ancillary, losses don't tend to be that bad unless you've misjudged things badly. I've never found elites generally, nor elephants specifically are worth the money. Cheapo-basic units (who courtesy of type II or type IV governments start with a chevron) with upgraded weapons and armour, handled appropriately in battle do the job. And are easily replaced if losses are bad.

I use Epeiros as a migrated faction (Pergamon in one game, Massilia in the other) where I can't get type I governments anywhere (being in Asia Minor/Thrace or Gaul) and I can't say I've ever felt a great loss not having any of their elites. Though I don't play anywhere near as quickly as you do, and I never aim to wipe any faction out.

Fair enough, it definitely works without elites or not wiping anybody out. I usually use basic armies myself, and considering the threat level also leave factions usually alive. Unfortunately, few of my generals have/get the doctor trait so I have sometimes unexpected heavy losses - especially in the beginning.
Since you mentioned Epeiros too: I started that game for fun, nothing serious (I'm too occupied with other stuff to take a slow approach, sadly), I took Pyrrhos and conquered Pella, then went south to solidify rule and keep the Macedonians in check. Menawhile, I lost Taras - thought I had enough to beat the army besieging the city, but was wrong - so I was in heavy debt and Macedon still had a large army I needed to eliminate, so i made the mistake to walk by Athens. Athenians didn't like it so I had to fight off several armies and was basically forced to take the city - then went on to defeat the Macedonians in an epic battle near Korinthos - and apparently killed off their remaining family members and thus wiping them out rather unplanned. Then went off to Sparta so I could claim rule over Greece.. While my "normal" troops were really beaten already, my elephants remained full strength (until some got killed by my own skirmishers trying "harass" a fleeing enemy - but they were "awared" with the honor of assaulting a city later - sadly, 30 of them survived) and were the source of every victory I had. (they and the Illyrian cavalry - they are awesome, but were down to 10% of their strength by that point). Currently they are fighting in Italy and already played a major part in a crazy battle with loads of trees and a full stack of heavily armored Romans.

Now while there are campaigns were I don't really use elites, I found this to be a lot of fun and they were definitely worth more than their money. Don't get me wrong; I agree on your view, but elites can make a game interesting as well, especially if you have a small army and REALLY need to rely on these troops to win the battle - this gives me a new challenge (I mean beating the AI is only one on occassion) and keeps the game fun and a nice variation from all the basic army fighting I have done (In fact, these were only the second unit of elephants I have ever commanded - which makes me love the little buggers even more ;) )