Israel jails organiser of peaceful protests

[Idaho]

Ok this will become the usual bunfight, but it's an important story as there is often a perception that the Palestinians only use terror tactics and there is no civil disobedience.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-11521237

Of course the way to discredit this man's movement is to suggest that it is a front for terror, or some such. A suggestion that will find fertile ground in the minds of many on here no doubt.

[Lemur]

As both the Palestinians and Israelis have (re)discovered, too much brutality makes you brutal. As my favorite syphilitic German put it, "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster." Also the central premise of the underrated comedy Starship Troopers:

[Fragony]

I really don't trust any news from there. Can summarise why in a single image

https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ryingwoman.jpg

edit: holy crap, someone gets that Starship Troopers is pure camp and intentionally awful. Great movie. As is Showgirls.

[naut]

You don't trust THE BBC. Ok Frags. Lay off the crazy juice for a while.

[rory_20_uk]

Its always difficult when someone commits an illegal act against something that is immoral.

[Fragony]

You don't trust THE BBC.

Absolutely don't trust the criminaly biased BBC no

[Hax]

No, let's rather go with the fairly unbalanced Fox News. I mean fair and balanced, of course.

[Fragony]

No, let's rather go with the fairly unbalanced Fox News. I mean fair and balanced, of course.

I don't trust any news-source, blogs do just fine. Faster acces to news, and forced to rectify just as well should they cook something up. The sting is in MSM omnisions, I want the whole story, BBC gimme a break, MSM doesn't report the news they make it

[Furunculus]

You don't trust THE BBC. Ok Frags. Lay off the crazy juice for a while.

until the beeb release that secret report looking into BBC bias over the israel/palestine issue I don't trust them either!

[Idaho]

until the beeb release that secret report looking into BBC bias over the israel/palestine issue I don't trust them either!

But do you trust that a man who organises peaceful protest is imprisoned? And that these peaceful protests are often fired upon by soldiers?

[Fragony]

But do you trust that a man who organises peaceful protest is imprisoned? And that these peaceful protests are often fired upon by soldiers?

I don't, if he would be peaceful and of any influence he would be shot by his own. Pallywood.

[Idaho]

I don't, if he would be peaceful and of any influence he would be shot by his own. Pallywood.

Ok - the fantasists have all had a play. You can run along and let the grown-ups talk now

[Husar]

On the one hand Israelis are no angels, on the other hand people often claim it was a peaceful protest when they were actually throwing stones. I wasn't there so I don't know, it's so far away that I don't mind all that much anymore if they keep killing eachother. I just wish all the other countries on both sides would stop their support as well, until the two sides start working on an actual non-violent solution.

[Fragony]

Ok - the fantasists have all had a play. You can run along and let the grown-ups talk now

People are abducted and killed each day you fool, whatever you want it to be, it isn't that. Forgot about the PLO members being executed, often in the hospitals they were in. Do you even know people from there it's hell, and it aren't the Israeli's making it so.

[rory_20_uk]

Throwing stones... that it? The French have been up to their usual antics with petrol bombs and the like, yet they've not been shot at with live rounds.

If riot police can not deal with stones, there's something wrong.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You can tell Israel is a democracy. They don't manage to pursue ANY strategy to its necessary end-state. They continue the usual mish-mash of policies and tactics which, unsurprisingly, beget more of the same.

[rory_20_uk]

Viewing how Palestinian land ownership has altered over the last 40 years shows that the mish-mash is still very effective.

[Idaho]

Viewing how Palestinian land ownership has altered over the last 40 years shows that the mish-mash is still very effective.

Quite. A Palestinian property on land that settlers want will suddenly be found to have been built 'without the correct permits' and bulldozed, the family turfed out onto the street. Meanwhile settlers build entire towns on land that was once palestinian, shutting down roads in the process, and intimidating/beating up locals.

[Beskar]

Apparently, Palestine isn't even a official state with UN membership.

Just let Israel annex Palestine and get over with it. In a few decades, everything would have settled down.

[Skullheadhq]

Apparently, Palestine isn't even a official state with UN membership.

Just let Israel annex Palestine and get over with it. In a few decades, everything would have settled down.

Israel is not a full member either, and what do you want us to do, look the other way while Israel is committing atrocities?

[Fragony]

Israel is not a full member either, and what do you want us to do, look the other way while Israel is committing atrocities?

us?

Anyway the borders are temporally UN-technically

[Beskar]

Israel is not a full member either, and what do you want us to do, look the other way while Israel is committing atrocities?

Two state solution would never work. It is literally having two nations on the same piece of land. Actually, that is even incorrect in itself, it is Three nations on the same piece of land. Israel, Palestine and Hamas' Gaza.

The best solution would to federate the nations into one nation, in specific, Israel.

The current climate is not helping anyone, and all it does is radicalize the area even more significantly the longer it takes. There are many examples within Israel where Arabs, Jews, Christians, (insert here), all get along peacefully. The Palestinian people themselves will actually end up benefiting also, as they are now under 'Israel', Israel has no reason to do its the vast majority of its aggressive actions. Also, under a Federate system, Israel doesn't have to worry about influx of citizens, and it could craft the Palestinian and Gaza states which would work in a framework of a greater Israel.

There would be some instability due to terrorism and other things, but over time, there would be peace in the area. There would also be no "blockades", no where near the amount of check points, Israeli's wouldn't have to worry about Rockets flying into them, Palestinians wouldn't have to also worry about Rockets firing into them.

The more we put up this joke of a 'two-state solution', the more atrocities and problems that will occur.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Surely that has a lot of potential for major problems too? The current militants would continue in the form of separatist movements, abstract ideas like redrawing the lines on a map are meaningless unless there is real change for the ordinary person on the ground.

The only way that could be achieved is for a heck of a lot of resources to be transferred from the wealthier Jewish areas to the Palestinian ones, in order to actually given them some infrastructure and jobs so that the people have some incentive to do something rather than become radical Islamists and fight for a living.

But then that would upset the Jewish population at having to fund these people that in their minds have been killing them all these years. Look at Spain where the Basques and Catalans and people from wealthier industrialised areas want to secede because their taxes are funding poorer regions like Andalusia... it would be that situation x100 in Israel.

Plus there is absolutely no common indentity to build upon for the Israeli/Palestinian people. In the UK Scots and English can say they are British, for Spain being Spanish has some value as an umbrella identity, but how could that be forged in Israel?

[Furunculus]

Two state solution would never work. It is literally having two nations on the same piece of land. Actually, that is even incorrect in itself, it is Three nations on the same piece of land. Israel, Palestine and Hamas' Gaza.

The best solution would to federate the nations into one nation, in specific, Israel.
.

because that's working really well for belgium....!

[Fragony]

because that's working really well for belgium....!

Kinda does, can mock their inability to form a stable government but the belgians seem to do better without these idiots. Of course it helps that the Walloons have no holy mission to kill the Flemmish wherever they find them but still.

edit, good read http://hetvrijevolk.com/index.php?pagina=12270

Kinda mirrors the reflections of a friend of mine, he isn't from ghaza himself but has relatives there. Hamas is corrupt to the bone at best, and absolutely vicious the rest of the time. Arabs don't need the jews to make their life's miserable.

[Beskar]

Yes, I am wrong, because Spain and Belguim are obviously war zones with many deaths and casualties each day, with French-speaking Belguim in a virtual ghetto and home to the French flotilla incident, where French navy was trying to pass the Flemish blockage 'peacefully'. The issues in Belgium and Spain is pretty much people tuttering rather loudly with them and modern day Ireland being a very significant improvement for both the Israelis and the Palestinians.

The rather 'abstract lines on a map' is the very issue. Because without those lines, Israeli security forces can just stamp out the terrorism in their own backyard, without having to leave them roam free, because their backyard is technically owned by some one else.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Yes, I am wrong, because Spain and Belguim are obviously war zones with many deaths and casualties each day, with French-speaking Belguim in a virtual ghetto and home to the French flotilla incident, where French navy was trying to pass the Flemish blockage 'peacefully'. The issues in Belgium and Spain is pretty much people tuttering rather loudly with them and modern day Ireland being a very significant improvement for both the Israelis and the Palestinians.

That is more to do with the fact that Belgium in in the heart of the developed world. Adding the political instability that comes with a system like Belgium's would certainly translate into conflict in the Middle-East.

[Furunculus]

^ wot he said ^

[gaelic cowboy]

I don't understand this at all from a demographic or strategic point of view Israel does not have the numbers to sustain all these settlements

Some of the settlers are so religious they wont serve in the army they expect to protect them on the very same settlements.

[Meneldil]

Considering that all multinational states are encountering harsher and harsher difficulties as time goes, I don't see how that would work in the middle-east.

Most provinces in Spain are being bitch to eachothers. You even have regional racism on the rise. Same in Belgium, where some people realistically think they country won't last much longer. Somehow, you want to take this model, that's not working in western Europe, for some of the most democratic and wealthy countries, a impose it onto backwater, hatred-filled Palestine/Israel? Good luck with that.