Why can't Europe defend itself?

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar..._Member_States

The combined defence budgets of the 27 EU member states in 2008 amounted to €200.2 billion ($260.4 billion). This represents 1.63% of European Union GDP[2], second only to the US military's €477.4 billion ($620.5 billion) 2008 defence budget, which represents 4.5% of United States GDP. The EU figures include the spending for joint projects such as the Eurofighter and joint procurement of equipment.

You mean to tell me then the EU can not defend itself? I mean, Why do we have to fight all the wars and keep bases all around the world. Do the Europeans love their softy Pension benefits from the Government they can't defend themselves if the big ban Russian/Chinese/Arab come knocking?

[Shibumi]

Oh, we can.

However, we are not as, how to put it? "Eager" - to get into conflicts.

China has a lot of ground to cover before they reach us.
Russia can not tackle us.
Arabs... You got to be joking?

[Lemur]

Arabs... You got to be joking?

Hey now, we've spent upwards of two trillion in the last nine years taking it to the Arabs. And ... uh ... look at how well that's turned out!

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Hey now, we've spent upwards of two trillion in the last nine years taking it to the Arabs. And ... uh ... look at how well that's turned out!

And look at England in Afghanistan in the 1800's. Well over a 100 years prior and even then the English, the most powerful nation in the world got whoop by them. Mongols got crushed by the Egyptians in 1260's.
Don't underestimate them.


How can you prove Russia won't? Overran you guys (part of Europe anyhow) once before....

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

And look at England in Afghanistan in the 1800's. Well over a 100 years prior and even then the English, the most powerful nation in the world got whoop by them. Mongols got crushed by the Egyptians in 1260's.
Don't underestimate them.


How can you prove Russia won't? Overran you guys (part of Europe anyhow) once before....

You mean "Great Britain".

In any case - the Afgans didn't "whoop" the Empire, they just faught it to exhaustion. Or, more to the point, they did what they are doing to America now.

Can we defend ourselves?

Yes, but we dod not have long-range Force projection, the whole of Europe has three Aircraft Carriers between all its nations. How many does the US have these days? 12?

That's where your money is.

[Sarmatian]

How can you prove Russia won't? Overran you guys (part of Europe anyhow) once before....

More than once, actually, but since Russian GDP is waaaay smaller than EU's, they really can't do it, they'd get spanked. And they have no reason to. Since they can't and they don't want to, there is no real reason to afraid, is there?

China, kind of similar to Russia.

Arabs, now that is a joke...

[Hax]

You mean "Great Britain".

Wouldn't you rather say "The United Kingdom"? I'm feeling sorry for all the soldiers from Man being left out of it all.

[rory_20_uk]

"Defend" is different to invading / pissing off the locals.

I agree that Europe has become complacent in its defence and has a very poor organisation in terms of strengths and duplication.

America uses its defence policy as part of it's Pork Barrel orders to placate areas whose industries are failing.

[Cute Wolf]

Europe has gonna weak... all they do is condemning fights anywhere... maybe an alien invasion will teach them a lesson or two...

[Lord of Lent]

We can just think of a better use for that 3 trillion dollars...

[PanzerJaeger]

Oh boy.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

They can't afford it; they spend all their money on firefighters.

[Andres]

They can't afford it; they spend all their money on firefighters.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Nice quip Sasaki-san.

My answer would be that Europe chooses to defend themselves with a network of alliances and economic ties along with a good deal of "jaw-jaw."

Since, aside from the Balkans in the immediate aftermath of the Cold War, there hasn't been a lot of harm done to the Europeans, it is pretty hard to say they've got it wrong.

Should NATO be disbanded there would need to be a shift in the approach, but right now it works well.

[Tellos Athenaios]

You mean to tell me then the EU can not defend itself?

Erm, according to that excerpt the EU represents the 2nd largest military budget (after the USA). And unlike the USA the EU doesn't make a point of annoying the people of Okinawa on a semi predictable basis. Instead we prefer to deal with Somali pirates which is less expensive and more useful altogether.

I mean, Why do we have to fight all the wars and keep bases all around the world.

You do know that the USA chose to do that. There was no military need for the USA to invade Iraq, it just felt like it. You can agree or disagree with the motives but the point remains that as long as the USA continues to remain a meddlesome power it is going to get tied up in all sorts of regional conflicts. That's not so different from the EU but what is different is that as long as the USA's approach to exerting influence is by sending in its armed forces the USA is going to be tied up in all sorts of regional wars. It's much cheaper to supply a conditional bilateral loan than to spray a country with bullets and not get what you want either.

Do the Europeans love their softy Pension benefits from the Government they can't defend themselves if the big ban Russian/Chinese/Arab come knocking?

They won't. For starters who's going to finance the Russians, Chinese, and Arabs if they did? Right now it's the Europeans (well the Arabs not so much, the USA pumps in lots of money there as well). But especially China has no interest in killing off the market which fuels Chinese growth and provides China with cheap capital; Russia has its own problems to deal with -- and both China and Russia are conveniently preoccupied with the USA because both would dearly love to tell the USA to suck it up.

The one thing they do is stealing IP. But no army is going to stop that from happening, as the USA has been beginning to realise in the past few years: guns don't buy you much on the Internet.