The Lusotanian Identity

[Brennus]

Hello everyone!

In a similar vein to the "Who are the Cimbri-Teutones" thread which was floating around a few months ago I wanted to pose the question of who were the Lusitanians? Now before somebody posts "they were an Iron Age people living in western Iberia" what I am interested in specifically is their linguistic and ethnic identity. Were they Celtiberian, Celtic or Iberian? Was the Lusitanian language indo-european and if so was it related to the Celtic languages? And finally is there any relation between the Lusitanians and the Tartessian kingdom.

Thank you for your insights.

Also... the headress worn by Iberi Milites, what was it made from and did it serve any practical purpose?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Well, according to the web they were an Indo-European people.....and the Iberians were not Indo-European. So they weren't Iberians, they were ethnically different.

Consensus seems to be they originated from the Alpine region in Gaul. In the 6th Century BCE they migrated to Iberia (possibly, even probably, pushed out by Celts) and settled in what is now southern Portugal, but some time after that were conquered and occupied for at least a century by later Celtic invaders from Gaul, hence they adopted elements of Celtic language, religion and culture that did not originate with them. However, they eventually drove back the Celtic invaders and regained independence from them. Much like the ancient Egyptians were conquered by, but later drove out, the Hyksos, by adopting much of their conquerers' military technology and fighting styles.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanians

And: http://www.theancientweb.com/explore...?content_id=42

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

so, they are neither keltoi nor Iberian, but an alpine lot that had been displaced. Then what about their connection with the irish?

[moonburn]

it is said that the first inhabitants of ireland where lusitanians that went to the sea altough i don´t believe that there´s any such evidence

as for the lusi per se they are probably a mix of the old castrean people who came to the peninsula in the 6th to 5th century and build all those fortifications in the hilltops and the native iberians calling them specifically indo european is a bit biased since many new theories defend that that was a cultural exchange more then real people being displaced and moving

[Vaginacles]

Well, according to the web they were an Indo-European people.....and the Iberians were not Indo-European. So they weren't Iberians, they were ethnically different.

Consensus seems to be they originated from the Alpine region in Gaul. In the 6th Century BCE they migrated to Iberia (possibly, even probably, pushed out by Celts) and settled in what is now southern Portugal, but some time after that were conquered and occupied for at least a century by later Celtic invaders from Gaul, hence they adopted elements of Celtic language, religion and culture that did not originate with them. However, they eventually drove back the Celtic invaders and regained independence from them. Much like the ancient Egyptians were conquered by, but later drove out, the Hittites, by adopting much of their conquerers' military technology and fighting styles.See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusitanians

And: http://www.theancientweb.com/explore...?content_id=42

The Egyptians were never conquered by the hittites, they were conquered by the hyksos in the second intermediate period after the middle kingdom.

[Blxz]

The Egyptians were never conquered by the hittites, they were conquered by the hyksos in the second intermediate period after the middle kingdom.

Chariots for the win. My favourite part of the 'Pharaoh' game by Impressions Games.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

The Egyptians were never conquered by the hittites, they were conquered by the hyksos in the second intermediate period after the middle kingdom.

Sorry, got the two confused - Hyksos is correct.

[Lvcretivs]

Also... the headress worn by Iberi Milites, what was it made from and did it serve any practical purpose?

These caps and headdresses are presumably 'helmets' made from dried sinew ('springy', shock-absorbent and relatively cut-resistant):

Strabon, Geographica III,3,6:
"...τοὺς δ᾽ οὖν Λυσιτανούς φασιν ἐνεδρευτικοὺς ἐξερευνητικοὺς ὀξεῖς κούφους εὐεξελίκτους: ἀσπίδιον δ᾽ αὐτοὺς δίπουν ἔχειν τὴν διάμετρον, κοῖλον εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν, τελαμῶσιν ἐξηρτημένον: οὔτε γὰρ πόρπακας οὔτ᾽ ἀντιλαβὰς ἔχει ... παραξιφὶς πρὸς τούτοις ἢ κοπίς. λινοθώρακες οἱ πλείους: σπάνιοι δὲ ἁλυσιδωτοῖς χρῶνται καὶ τριλοφίαις, οἱ δ᾽ ἄλλοι νευρίνοις κράνεσιν: οἱ πεζοὶ δὲ καὶ κνημῖδας ἔχουσιν, ἀκόντια δ᾽ ἕκαστος πλείω: τινὲς δὲ καὶ δόρατι χρῶνται: ἐπιδορατίδες δὲ χάλκεαι."

"At any rate, the Lusitanians, it is said, are given to laying ambush, given to spying out, are quick, nimble, and good at deploying troops. They have a small shield two feet in diameter, concave in front, and suspended from the shoulder by means of thongs (for it has neither arm-rings nor handles). Besides these shields they have a dirk or a butcher's-knife. Most of them wear linen cuirasses; a few wear chain-wrought cuirasses and helmets with three crests, but the rest wear helmets made of sinews. The foot-soldiers wear greaves also, and each soldier has several javelins; and some also make use of spears, and the spears have bronze heads."

[Brennus]

Thanks for the info guys, especially Lvcretivs!