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Thread: Multiculturalism is dead

  1. #121
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    The only reason people know your country exists is because whores and smack are legal
    And they're planning to end that, too. Thinking of moving to Belgium, or France.
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  2. #122
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    lol.

    The only reason people know your country exists is because whores and smack are legal

    One trick pony much?
    You know it's true, it just doesn't get any more awesome. You are immediately everybody's best friend. Except in Belgium. And Texas probably but I mean common, at least Egypt decorated their desert with awesome pyramids.

  3. #123
    Darkside Medic Senior Member rory_20_uk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    I think that many others have legal or semi-legal positions on both of those issues, but first to market matters - Vaigra is not the best treatment out there, but it's the one everyone knows.

    An enemy that wishes to die for their country is the best sort to face - you both have the same aim in mind.
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  4. #124
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by rory_20_uk View Post
    I think that many others have legal or semi-legal positions on both of those issues, but first to market matters - Vaigra is not the best treatment out there, but it's the one everyone knows.

    Stupid example as viagra isn't cool, although I do understand it comes to mind naturally when discussing Texas market-technically. I still call fail.

  5. #125

    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    I thought Viagra is Canadian for exports?
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  6. #126
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir View Post
    That's a bit harsh. You understand they invented agriculture, law, and the first cities, right?
    No, that was the Assyrians and Summarians, both groups conquered by the Arabs after the coming of Islam.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."

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  7. #127
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    multiculturalism has always been more like pan culturalism...

    We do not sow.

  8. #128
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    You know it's true, it just doesn't get any more awesome. You are immediately everybody's best friend. Except in Belgium. And Texas probably but I mean common, at least Egypt decorated their desert with awesome pyramids.
    If anyone wants to deck themselves in orange and come marching down my street, they are welcome anytime!
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  9. #129
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by alh_p View Post
    Yes.


    Quite. And again, where have I given you (and Sasaki) the impression I don't believe in absolute truth? My divergence from absolute truth to perceived truth is because cultural and social beliefs (perceived truths) are too complex/biased to be absolute.


    Only if you measure cultures against each other.
    If you have accepted the above then some cultures are morally and practically better than others. So measuring them is not only possible, it is also litterally a philosopgical imperative.

    As I am at pains to explain, multiculturalism is not about measuring one culture or society against another. It is about mutual toleration based on understanding and negotiation.


    Whatever. If your purpose IS to blend cultures and identities into the best composite, then clearly multiculturalism is useless. My point is that that is not what multiculturalism is for -nor is it why its proponents like it!
    As I said, multiculturalism doesn't work - as has been demonstrated time and again.
    Last edited by Philippus Flavius Homovallumus; 10-30-2010 at 22:59.
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  10. #130
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Maybe you could argue that multiculturalism does have some philosophical use in terms of promoting some absolute truths, since the value of peace that comes from harmony between different cultures is greater than the conflict that would be caused by allowing inferior cultures to be assimilated.

    For example, when people feel their way of life is under threat, they often take it to an extreme to protect their identity. And this polarisation is what gives us Wahhabis and Jihadists etc.

    Just a thought, couldn't leave without arguing with you PVC.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  11. #131
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    Maybe you could argue that multiculturalism does have some philosophical use in terms of promoting some absolute truths, since the value of peace that comes from harmony between different cultures is greater than the conflict that would be caused by allowing inferior cultures to be assimilated.

    For example, when people feel their way of life is under threat, they often take it to an extreme to protect their identity. And this polarisation is what gives us Wahhabis and Jihadists etc.

    Just a thought, couldn't leave without arguing with you PVC.
    Except.... not everyone shares our Christian desire to see man in a state of universal peace and love.

    Such cultures must be struck down with righteous fury!

    Ahem.

    Sorry, I had a medieval moment there.

    Still, India would be a much more miserable place today were it not for Western interference.
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  12. #132
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    For example, when people feel their way of life is under threat, they often take it to an extreme to protect their identity. And this polarisation is what gives us Wahhabis and Jihadists etc.

    Just a thought, couldn't leave without arguing with you PVC.
    Nope, only ignorance does that.
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  13. #133
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Nope, only ignorance does that.
    I dissagree, one can feel threatened because of one's ignorance but ultimately it is the percieved threat, not the ignorance, that provokes the violent reaction.

    Although, the New Atheists are pretty ignorant about Christianity and violently oppose it - so I suppose you do have a corralation in fact.
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  14. #134
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Although, the New Atheists are pretty ignorant about Christianity and violently oppose it - so I suppose you do have a corralation in fact.
    How so? Violent no disrespectful yes, imho you should just deal with that, asking me to alter my daily business out of respect for your imaginary friends is much more intrusive than mocking said intrusion could ever be.
    Last edited by Fragony; 10-31-2010 at 13:55.

  15. #135
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    How so? Violent no disrespectful yes, imho you should just deal with that, asking me to alter my daily business out of respect for your imaginary friends is much more intrusive than mocking said intrusion could ever be.
    Not physically violent, but if you look at the invective that Dawkins, "religion is the cause of most wars" Hitches "religion ruins everything" or Pullman "I want to destroy the foundation of Christianity" you get the distinct impression this is more than just reasoned dislike, or even disdain.

    Do you not think?
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  16. #136
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Not physically violent, but if you look at the invective that Dawkins, "religion is the cause of most wars" Hitches "religion ruins everything" or Pullman "I want to destroy the foundation of Christianity" you get the distinct impression this is more than just reasoned dislike, or even disdain.

    Do you not think?
    Obvious attacks, but I agree with them, and they can go in with a stretched leg I don't mind really

  17. #137
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Still, India would be a much more miserable place today were it not for Western interference.
    In the eyes of people from the West, yeah, and I agree. However, Muslim Indian scholars viewed the British raj as the Dar al-Harb.
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  18. #138
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Anything non-islamic can be that, it means 'house of war', land of unbelievers.

  19. #139
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Anything non-islamic can be that, it means 'house of war', land of unbelievers.
    I'm quite aware, thank you very much. I must correct you however, land of unbelievers is "dar al-kufr", meaning (literally) "house of the non-believers.

    However, several Islamic scholars (especially from Persia) have said that a non-Shari'a state can very well be a dar al-salaam.
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  20. #140

    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    In the eyes of people from the West, yeah, and I agree. However, Muslim Indian scholars viewed the British raj as the Dar al-Harb.
    Non sequitur.

  21. #141
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    I'm quite aware, thank you very much. I must correct you however, land of unbelievers is "dar al-kufr", meaning (literally) "house of the non-believers.

    However, several Islamic scholars (especially from Persia) have said that a non-Shari'a state can very well be a dar al-salaam.
    Don't bs me I know my stuff, it simply means territory not yet under islam.

  22. #142
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Non sequitur.
    I don't know, it might be very important.

    Since there apparently is a problem with Islam?

    EDIT: Also, hey look, a self-describing post!
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  23. #143
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Beskar View Post
    Nope, only ignorance does that.
    This ignores the reactionary nature of almost every extreme political/social movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    How so? Violent no disrespectful yes, imho you should just deal with that, asking me to alter my daily business out of respect for your imaginary friends is much more intrusive than mocking said intrusion could ever be.
    With you 100%, atheists should be free to hate on me all they like and I should be free to be a Bible-bashing lunatic. If I hear one more person talk about the importance of 'respect' between different people then I will go and pimp-slap the **** out of them. I feel the urge to pimp-slap people a lot these days...

    'Respect' is one of those buzzwords the left likes to use to guilt-trip everyone into thinking like them and loving the people they do. There is no force more unstoppable or followed so blindly than "leftist moral outrage", my favourite term that I havent' used for a whlie now.

    I hear people talking a lot about Christians moralising but I don't see it, it always seems to be a leftie that has to find something to be offended about. And worse they have to control everyone so that they can't offend them.

    Bear in mind though, these are the attitudes not just of actual lefties, but also the centre-right. They're going to start pushing me to the old-style "far-right" as it is inappropriately called if things continue...
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  24. #144
    BrownWings: AirViceMarshall Senior Member Furunculus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    With you 100%, atheists should be free to hate on me all they like and I should be free to be a Bible-bashing lunatic. If I hear one more person talk about the importance of 'respect' between different people then I will go and pimp-slap the **** out of them. I feel the urge to pimp-slap people a lot these days...

    'Respect' is one of those buzzwords the left likes to use to guilt-trip everyone into thinking like them and loving the people they do. There is no force more unstoppable or followed so blindly than "leftist moral outrage", my favourite term that I havent' used for a whlie now.
    this is why i prefer the ye olde' english ideal of; "Does it really matter what these affectionate people do — so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses!"
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    Last edited by Furunculus; 10-31-2010 at 22:35.
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  25. #145
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Don't bs me I know my stuff, it simply means territory not yet under islam.
    Don't be silly now. The Muzzies Muslims themselves can hardly agree on what constitutes "dar al-salaam", "dar al-harb" and "dar al-kufr". It's not something you, especially not you or me in that respect can pinpoint. Besides, it's not even a term from the Qur'an or Hadiths, but something a 13th century scholar made up to divide the world neatly into a world of non-believers and believers when it was important, military. You know, with the Mongols and all that?
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  26. #146
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    Don't be silly now. The Muzzies Muslims themselves can hardly agree on what constitutes "dar al-salaam", "dar al-harb" and "dar al-kufr". It's not something you, especially not you or me in that respect can pinpoint. Besides, it's not even a term from the Qur'an or Hadiths, but something a 13th century scholar made up to divide the world neatly into a world of non-believers and believers when it was important, military. You know, with the Mongols and all that?
    Goes further back it's a core principle, bit like it was for the coralignans to devide the world into this and that, but that was then and now is now anyway. No such thing as burning witches in the bible, but it happened anyway.

  27. #147
    Member Member Hax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Goes further back it's a core principle, bit like it was for the coralignans to devide the world into this and that, but that was then and now is now anyway.
    Oh no, no, no. The concept of dar al-Islam was something of a vague term until the 13th century scholar Abu Hanifa.
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  28. #148
    Voluntary Suspension Voluntary Suspension Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Obvious attacks, but I agree with them, and they can go in with a stretched leg I don't mind really
    Agreeing with them is one thing, hurling hatred and bile at a significant proportion of the population because they don't agree with you is not healthy. In fact, believing religion is "evil" or that religious beliefs "cause evil" is also unhealthy, because it assumes that, up until no more than 200 years ago pretty much everyone and everything was motivated by evil.

    That's a Renaissance prejudice against the "ignorant" people of the past, it's a form of cultural self-hate, and it is inacurate.

    So, it can't really be seen as intellectually very healthy.

    Can it?
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  29. #149
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Hax View Post
    Oh no, no, no. The concept of dar al-Islam was something of a vague term until the 13th century scholar Abu Hanifa.
    Your wrong, from the beginning there was the house of war 'Dar al Harb' and 'Dar al Islaam'. Don't know if it came from Abu Hanifa, but I do know he lived 500 years earlier. I think you are confused with the age of humanism where there was discussion on changing it to 'Dar al Salaam' and 'Dar al Kaffir'

    @PVC I understand what you are saying, some will kick a man when he's down and you don't deserve such contempt. But did you ever have someone at your door trying to convince you of atheism, or saw atheist protests against a shop that's open on a certain day, 'you' limit me more yhan vica versa. I'm an atheist but I don't hate religious people, I just think it's silly.
    Last edited by Fragony; 11-01-2010 at 13:26.

  30. #150
    pardon my klatchian Member al Roumi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Multiculturalism is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    If you have accepted the above then some cultures are morally and practically better than others. So measuring them is not only possible, it is also litterally a philosopgical imperative.
    So you would measure these cultures on what scale? The scale of how western and liberal they are? Their technological creativity? Wealth? How much they value religion and how devout they are? How they treat strangers? How they treat women? How they treat the weak?

    Please do provide me with an absolute measure for the "worth" of a culture, which can be disambiguated from any cultural values themselves -and hence not dictated by your own personal valuation of things.

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