Multiculturalism is dead

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yes, of course, it's easy to take my own values and then judge everybody else by them, and then what's the point?
They can judge me by their values and then we bash eachother's heads in or discuss it until the end of times?

If they are equal the banning the burkha was wrong. If they aren't, then that kind of legislation can be justifiable. So there's certainly a point to it.

[Fragony]

I have a few absolute truths

But you will always be Texan But OT, what the he were you multiculti-folk thinking? Glad it's gone, but it's gone like the mistress you only from 9 to 5. WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING, that you can just undutch the dutch, that you can just unfrench the french? That stove is hot don't touch it. Out of everything these bored rich kids managed to think of multiculturelalism is by far the worst idea ever they ever had

[Hax]

The strange thing about the whole "the-burka-is-imposed-by-men-who-oppress-their-women" thing is that a study performed here (the Netherlands) pointed out that it's mostly worn by converts and "born-again" Muslims.

[Fragony]

The strange thing about the whole "the-burka-is-imposed-by-men-who-oppress-their-women" thing is that a study performed here (the Netherlands) pointed out that it's mostly worn by converts and "born-again" Muslims.

Do we have to accept either? One is on how I see women and the other is on it, If you can't accept that go somwhere else, you are not welcome here. Go to Sweden, they will run a marathon everything non-Swedish

[Husar]

If they are equal the banning the burkha was wrong. If they aren't, then that kind of legislation can be justifiable. So there's certainly a point to it.

I never said they're equal, I'm saying that cultures are more complex than such populistic statements suggest.

If I want to drink tea, I look to turkish culture, for baguettes I'd look to french culture, now which of the two is the superior one?

When we look at religious freedom, we used to say french culture is superior because it has religious freedom, then they banned the burka.
If we go and say their culture is inferior and that's why we're going to ban it bit by bit until they assimilate or leave, it reminds me of the borg.

There are two sides to that coin, there are people who don't want to accept our culture, yet live here, and there are people who want to but are met with rejection until they give up.
It shouldn't be illegal to wear a burka, it should be illegal to force someone to wear it.
It's also illegal to beat your wife, but it's not illegal to walk around with a wound.

What I mean is that in the latter case, justice relies on the wife reporting it and everybody accepts it, but in the case of "foreigners" they just ban the result of possible wrongdoing that may actually be wanted by the woman instead of the actual wrongdoing.

People simplify such issues because they don't care a lot about these "foreigners" who are oh so bad, but how is our culture better if it's just as ignorant and xenophobic as theirs?
Just because we have more money and stress and and luxuries that cause the producers to jump off of roofs due to their horrible treatment and bad pay?
a large part of our culture is even fine with ruining the whole planet, distributing poisonous or unhealthy food and poisoning nature and people in many other ways, even if you get to an overall rating for a culture I'm not so sure we'd come out ahead. Freedom is relative, we hold our slaves abroad and force people to take badly paid jobs because being unemployed makes them feel and be seen as worthless, it depends on the individual whether that can be defined as freedom or not.

Ignorant blanket statements won't convince me of our culture's superiority in any way.

[Papewaio]

Imho you can absolutely do that. it's just an equation of benefits to conclude that western civilisation is superior to others.

We are not the happiest. So whilst on average we have the longest lifespans and most freedoms western nations aren't the happiest.

I still think life span is a good rule of thumb. But if we could cherry pick from cultures around the world lifestyles as we do food stuffs I think we could have a much better set of societies.

multiculturalism is dead. long live multiculturalism 2.0

This is where we don't assume all aspects of any culture are equivalent. We also don't assume ours is the best. What we do is enable people to have informed choice and freedom to have the best of all and take responsibility for the consequences.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Freedom is relative, we hold our slaves abroad and force people to take badly paid jobs because being unemployed makes them feel and be seen as worthless, it depends on the individual whether that can be defined as freedom or not.

This seems completely....wrong. We are no better than societies that stone women because....we don't pay chinese workers enough?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You aren't sure whether we'd come out ahead, well go figure it out! If ignorant blanket statements won't convince you, go read something that isn't ignorant...by the way I purposely said nothing in particular about the burka.

It's not a point scoring game where we add up our points and try to make the total come out greater than theirs (whoever "they" are...). You criticize our attitude towards the environment, you praise theirs, simple enough. Why would you wonder whether there is any point to it?

[Husar]

It's not a point scoring game where we add up our points and try to make the total come out greater than theirs (whoever "they" are...).

That's what I was saying.

This seems completely....wrong. We are no better than societies that stone women because....we don't pay chinese workers enough?

That's not what I was saying.

My point is that this politician talks about protecting our civilization and whatnot with blanket statements that reinforce the notion that other cultures are inferior to ours in every way. IMO other cultures may have benefits as well and instead of dismissing them outright based on blanket statements we may actually want to adopt some of their benefits. And hope that they adopt some of the benefits of our culture. The issue isn't black and white but pandering to xenophobic ideas makes it seem so and just reinforces these xenophobic ideas.

I guess I'm a failure at english if that really wasn't clear from my previous posts.

Sure his statement is true but I take issue with the intention and the effect it has regardless of that.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That's not what I was saying.

My point is that this politician talks about protecting our civilization and whatnot with blanket statements that reinforce the notion that other cultures are inferior to ours in every way. IMO other cultures may have benefits as well and instead of dismissing them outright based on blanket statements we may actually want to adopt some of their benefits. And hope that they adopt some of the benefits of our culture. The issue isn't black and white but pandering to xenophobic ideas makes it seem so and just reinforces these xenophobic ideas.

I guess I'm a failure at english if that really wasn't clear from my previous posts.

Sure his statement is true but I take issue with the intention and the effect it has regardless of that.

Ahh ok. Well you threw me off with the "freedom is relative" bit.

[Fragony]

'We are not the happiest. So whilst on average we have the longest lifespans and most freedoms western nations aren't the happiest.'

The Dutch and vikings are the happiest

[Fragony]

'multiculturalism is dead. long live multiculturalism 2.0This is where we don't assume all aspects of any culture are equivalent. We also don't assume ours is the best. What we do is enable people to have informed choice and freedom to have the best of all and take responsibility for the consequences. '

I'll drink to this by the way, having the loonieleft having to explain themselves instead of just being 100%OK is all I can reasonably ask for. It's been mostly done the EU is the next fight as they are still multiculti, immigrants are welcome always have been

[Tuuvi]

I disagree that a civilization can be inferior because of their human rights record, those things can change. Once upon a time Western civilization wasn't so great on the human rights scale. Some day Middle Eastern civilization will adopt more religious freedom and gender equality, and it will still be Middle Eastern civilization.

[Fragony]

I disagree that a civilization can be inferior because of their human rights record, those things can change. Once upon a time Western civilization wasn't so great on the human rights scale. Some day Middle Eastern civilization will adopt more religious freedom and gender equality, and it will still be Middle Eastern civilization.

Hence the difference between 'aren't equal' and 'can't be equal'. That it may be easier in let's say Marocco than it is in the middle-east doesn't really matter for the statement itself.

[InsaneApache]

The guy who probably started it all has died.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16968930

R.I.P Mr. Honeyford. I well remember seeing rent-a-mob outside the school when I worked opposite it back in 84/5. A brave man.

[Fragony]

Never heard of him but he looks like a fine example of what the leftist church will throw against if you aren't 100% sure that multiculture is the way forward. Kinda funny, today we get to hear we have no solutions, of course we don't have any solutions, none but making the best out of the mess those with absolute faith created.

[Strike For The South]

I think a distinction has to be made between a cutural shift which undermines Western Style Democracy, and eating curry. The later really is no harm no foul

[Fragony]

I think a distinction has to be made between a cutural shift which undermines Western Style Democracy, and eating curry. The later really is no harm no foul

Nobody minds curry's but multiculturelalism is just a stupid idea of bored rich kids who suddenly found a purpose

[InsaneApache]

No wonder that this place is in decline.

[Fragony]

Danish members, how much of this is true http://european-freedom-initiative.o...land&Itemid=60

[Fragony]

Oww no need to answer as it is all true. Well done Denmark, well done, really. Good thinking absolutely, what was a great country now has a rape percentage higher than any country in Africa. Just like the rest of Scandinavia.

[rory_20_uk]

Looks like it's strong in the UK.
Integrating well...

Shame on us Brits for forcing our ways on families who have mail ordered their brides from their homeland...

[InsaneApache]

Looks like it's strong in the UK.
Integrating well...

Shame on us Brits for forcing our ways on families who have mail ordered their brides from their homeland...

Feel the vibrancy. Celebrate the diversity.

Yeah right!

[Fragony]

It remains odd, over here Asians make eggrolls and fried shrimps, and they don't care about honour at all, they WILL zerg-rush you

[rvg]

I read this thread and weep for Europe's future. I can only hope that Europeans wake up before it's too late to save their culture, their values and their way of life.

[Fragony]

I read this thread and weep for Europe's future. I can only hope that Europeans wake up before it's too late to save their culture, their values and their way of life.

It isn't as bad as it sounds really. As the title said, multiculturalism is dead. The thoushall-left went to the EU and are starting to get the finger there as well.

[Hax]

You'd almost think London is burning as we speak.

[Beskar]

You'd almost think London is burning as we speak.

That was last year, and the Natives did it.

[Fragony]

That was last year, and the Natives did it.

You mean the few they could find were actually trialed, even found you the leet-chick that ends all argument

[Tuuvi]

You'd almost think London is burning as we speak.