Multiculturalism is dead

[Fragony]

So whilst it might be impolite to compare societies on a spatial level, it is ok to compare our own society over time.

Imho you can absolutely do that. it's just an equation of benefits to conclude that western civilisation is superior to others.

[Husar]

Yes, of course, it's easy to take my own values and then judge everybody else by them, and then what's the point?
They can judge me by their values and then we bash eachother's heads in or discuss it until the end of times?

Sure not all cultures are equal, but he might have just as well said the sky is blue and everybody would agree.

[gaelic cowboy]

Not all cultures are equal the same as not all viewpoints are equal.

You certainly have the right to live in a certain culture or hold a certain view but thats the height of it.




go on Dara explain it for everyone (some cursing)

[Fragony]

Yes, of course, it's easy to take my own values and then judge everybody else by them, and then what's the point?

Does there have to be a point to a mere observation? Who is really making a point with cultural relativation, it simply isn't true that cultures are equal we are in various degrees of development. Had he said that that cultures CAN'T be equal it would have been something different entirely. The outrage over this is absurd although I don't intend to have a beer to the people he said it to

[Strike For The South]

I have a few absolute truths

[Fragony]

I have a few absolute truths

But you will always be Texan But OT, what the he were you multiculti-folk thinking? Glad it's gone, but it's gone like the mistress you only from 9 to 5. WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU THINKING, that you can just undutch the dutch, that you can just unfrench the french? That stove is hot don't touch it. Out of everything these bored rich kids managed to think of multiculturelalism is by far the worst idea ever they ever had

[Hax]

The strange thing about the whole "the-burka-is-imposed-by-men-who-oppress-their-women" thing is that a study performed here (the Netherlands) pointed out that it's mostly worn by converts and "born-again" Muslims.

[Fragony]

The strange thing about the whole "the-burka-is-imposed-by-men-who-oppress-their-women" thing is that a study performed here (the Netherlands) pointed out that it's mostly worn by converts and "born-again" Muslims.

Do we have to accept either? One is on how I see women and the other is on it, If you can't accept that go somwhere else, you are not welcome here. Go to Sweden, they will run a marathon everything non-Swedish

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Yes, of course, it's easy to take my own values and then judge everybody else by them, and then what's the point?
They can judge me by their values and then we bash eachother's heads in or discuss it until the end of times?

If they are equal the banning the burkha was wrong. If they aren't, then that kind of legislation can be justifiable. So there's certainly a point to it.

[Husar]

If they are equal the banning the burkha was wrong. If they aren't, then that kind of legislation can be justifiable. So there's certainly a point to it.

I never said they're equal, I'm saying that cultures are more complex than such populistic statements suggest.

If I want to drink tea, I look to turkish culture, for baguettes I'd look to french culture, now which of the two is the superior one?

When we look at religious freedom, we used to say french culture is superior because it has religious freedom, then they banned the burka.
If we go and say their culture is inferior and that's why we're going to ban it bit by bit until they assimilate or leave, it reminds me of the borg.

There are two sides to that coin, there are people who don't want to accept our culture, yet live here, and there are people who want to but are met with rejection until they give up.
It shouldn't be illegal to wear a burka, it should be illegal to force someone to wear it.
It's also illegal to beat your wife, but it's not illegal to walk around with a wound.

What I mean is that in the latter case, justice relies on the wife reporting it and everybody accepts it, but in the case of "foreigners" they just ban the result of possible wrongdoing that may actually be wanted by the woman instead of the actual wrongdoing.

People simplify such issues because they don't care a lot about these "foreigners" who are oh so bad, but how is our culture better if it's just as ignorant and xenophobic as theirs?
Just because we have more money and stress and and luxuries that cause the producers to jump off of roofs due to their horrible treatment and bad pay?
a large part of our culture is even fine with ruining the whole planet, distributing poisonous or unhealthy food and poisoning nature and people in many other ways, even if you get to an overall rating for a culture I'm not so sure we'd come out ahead. Freedom is relative, we hold our slaves abroad and force people to take badly paid jobs because being unemployed makes them feel and be seen as worthless, it depends on the individual whether that can be defined as freedom or not.

Ignorant blanket statements won't convince me of our culture's superiority in any way.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Freedom is relative, we hold our slaves abroad and force people to take badly paid jobs because being unemployed makes them feel and be seen as worthless, it depends on the individual whether that can be defined as freedom or not.

This seems completely....wrong. We are no better than societies that stone women because....we don't pay chinese workers enough?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

You aren't sure whether we'd come out ahead, well go figure it out! If ignorant blanket statements won't convince you, go read something that isn't ignorant...by the way I purposely said nothing in particular about the burka.

It's not a point scoring game where we add up our points and try to make the total come out greater than theirs (whoever "they" are...). You criticize our attitude towards the environment, you praise theirs, simple enough. Why would you wonder whether there is any point to it?

[Husar]

It's not a point scoring game where we add up our points and try to make the total come out greater than theirs (whoever "they" are...).

That's what I was saying.

This seems completely....wrong. We are no better than societies that stone women because....we don't pay chinese workers enough?

That's not what I was saying.

My point is that this politician talks about protecting our civilization and whatnot with blanket statements that reinforce the notion that other cultures are inferior to ours in every way. IMO other cultures may have benefits as well and instead of dismissing them outright based on blanket statements we may actually want to adopt some of their benefits. And hope that they adopt some of the benefits of our culture. The issue isn't black and white but pandering to xenophobic ideas makes it seem so and just reinforces these xenophobic ideas.

I guess I'm a failure at english if that really wasn't clear from my previous posts.

Sure his statement is true but I take issue with the intention and the effect it has regardless of that.

[Papewaio]

Imho you can absolutely do that. it's just an equation of benefits to conclude that western civilisation is superior to others.

We are not the happiest. So whilst on average we have the longest lifespans and most freedoms western nations aren't the happiest.

I still think life span is a good rule of thumb. But if we could cherry pick from cultures around the world lifestyles as we do food stuffs I think we could have a much better set of societies.

multiculturalism is dead. long live multiculturalism 2.0

This is where we don't assume all aspects of any culture are equivalent. We also don't assume ours is the best. What we do is enable people to have informed choice and freedom to have the best of all and take responsibility for the consequences.