Have I overlooked Qart-Hadast all this time?

[QuintusSertorius]

I used to be a Romani-only player. They were the only faction I wanted to play because I wasn’t interested in pikes or barbarians. That’s changed over time a little, I’m less intolerant of phalanxes (though I prefer hoplites), and I don’t mind barbarian auxiliaries/mercs alongside my factional units. Right now I’m having a lot of fun with Hellenic-and-other fusion armies. Pergamon with Thracian and Galatian regionals/mercs is the main one. I like the mixture of spear-armed heavy infantry and sometimes pikes with medium infantry with precursor javelins and mercenary skirmishers/skirmishing cavalry. It’s a versatile but not terribly expensive mix.

I was looking over the Karthadastim roster and realising they have a lot of Hellenic-like units. Libyan Spearmen are Thureophoroi (identical stats, no matter what the blurb about them says). Liby-Phoenician Infantry are Classical Hoplites (again identical stats). Peoni Citizen Militia are a poor man’s Levy Hoplite. Their FMs (who I tend to use as heavy cavalry, rather than recruiting any) are better than the Epirote ones I’m used to (better armour and a shield). They have access to a load of Iberian, African and Gallic regionals/mercs to fill all the other roles (cavalry, AP infantry, skirmishers, etc). The only favoured unit I can’t recruit are peltastai, but there’s always the merc variant available almost everywhere. Their expansion zone is as huge as that of the Romani.

It would seem a perfect fit for the sorts of armies I like to play, though I’d probably go a little less phalanx-heavy than might be standard (2-3 units max). My only concern is the AI Romani. It would be nice to face vaguely appropriate army compositions, but shy of spawning additional units in their stacks, I can’t see that happening. I’m worried I’ve be facing stacks of mixed Gaeroas and Pedites Extraordinarii, with the odd unit of Triarii thrown in. I’m also ambivalent on elephants; I’ll probably disband the starting ones and never recruit any after that.

What are other people’s experiences of playing the Karthadastim?

[Roderick Ponce Von Fontlebottom]

Ive had good fun with Carthage, Expanding north with the goals of capturing Spain and Italy. Spain was harder then I anticipated forcing me to send more and more support armies to simply hold on to my cities. I originaly wanted to give Rome time to gain strength so they would at least be sort of a challenge, but I conquered Sicily and started destroying them pretty quick. And as you said theres nothing you can do to solve their horrible army organization I usualy see tons of celtic mercenaries, roarii, extraordinarii, and a couple factional units in there it gets tiresome but im steamrolling the Romans so I won't have to see there pathetic armies anymore.

Oh ya and if you notice join date March 2006, ! i BEEN AROUND SINCE .078 AHHHH!HH!!!

[Biowulf]

I really like playing Kart-Hadast because of the range of troops they have that you mentioned above as well as the range of enemies you can fight. You have the Numidian rebels, Egyptian-Greeks, Romani, Lusos, and Gauls just a few clicks away. There's also a range of fun ways to fight that role-play well with the faction, such as launching a massive naval raid or invasion to capture the heartland of a faction, or do what they did historically and take the mines in Iberia. There was also a guide somewhere that gave a comprehensive pros vs. cons report regarding where you can expand.
The way I always play is take all the African rebel territories (because I hate the blank spots on the map :P) then I take Africa and buy off the Ptoly troops at the same time. Then I either take Sicily or go after the Egyptians. It's actually a fun campaign and you don't really miss the peltasts since there are other troops that can take their place.

[Lysimachos]

The Karchedoi indeed have a very versatile unit roster. You are right about the almost identical stats of the units you mentioned to the hellenic variations (I think the Hoplites and Thureophoroi have 2 points higher morale). They have excellent units for practically any purpose, including assault infantry and phalanxes. Perhaps the balearic light infantry could be a good alternative to peltasts, although they are not as common.
I know you don't care much for Elephants, but for some extra punch they can be quite useful and Carthage should easily be able to support them once the economy gets going.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

I've only played the early campaign with them so far, haven't even fought the Romans yet, only Eleutheroi Numidians and Iberians. Since AI Rome is nerfed in EB, I prefer to give the Romans as long as possible to build themselves up before fighting them. But I love building up the Qart-Hadast economy, they've got potential for tremendous wealth.

[Fluvius Camillus]

No offence but you seem to start a new thread every day...

On a more serious note, I enjoy the "civilized" factions most. I have not really played Qarthadast yet, but it has a stable economy, an interesting starting position and a lot of roleplay oppurtunities. Not to mention a GREAT troop roster. Especially after the reforms.

~Fluvius

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

The Carthaginian units are so good, I modded my game after seeing the AI Carthaginians completely mince the AI Romans time after time in the campaign progress thread.....that's if the AI Lusotanns don't get them first! I gave all legionaries an extra secondary HP in the EDU, like the EB team did with horse archers - that way they are a lot harder to kill in autocalc, but just the same in a manual battle.

IMO AI Rome should only be killed off by a human player - never or almost never by another AI-controlled faction.

[QuintusSertorius]

No offence but you seem to start a new thread every day...

Number one rule of forum activity; if no one is talking about the things you want to discuss, then start the conversation. ;)

Besides these fora are a lot slower than I remember, trying to get some life back into them.

[FriendlyFire]

I have a Carthage campaign around the 240 BC mark, and things are eerily peaceful. Mago conquered the north African coastline with the starting army (minus elephants and cavalry), then Hamalcar united Sicily, and eventually took Rhegion off the Romans in return for their capture of Corsica. After a couple of heroic defenses of Rhegion, and with Xanthippos now defending it with a 3/4-stack, the Romans seem to have given up in the south. It also helps that they never succeeded in capturing Taras, so my Epeirote allies are spamming phalangites and threatening Arpi.

What the Romans ARE doing is sending all their armies north and east -- they've conquered Illyria down to Dalminion, grabbed a couple of Alpine towns, and now send legions to their doom against rebel super-stacks. All quite distressing, so I've purposefully slowed WAY down elsewhere. I'm expanding clockwise around the Iberian coastline (Arse, Emporion, etc), but I'm literally only taking one new city every 5 years. Hamalcar is besieging Massalia right now, and I'm the first faction to attack it!

I'm still allied with the Lusos, and hoping they'll use the exit route I've given them into Gaul. I'm at peace with the Ptolemaioi, with spies watching for any military buildup on their part. Basically I'm turning into a giant commercial empire, and as long as Rome keeps acting dumb, Epeiros is happy with our alliance, the Lusos have rebel towns to conquer, and the Ptolemaioi have battles elsewhere then peace will reign. The only thing that would trigger more aggressive military action on my part is if Epeiros succeeds in taking Arpi -- then I'm going to advance up the west coast of Italy to match their progress on the east coast. Other than that the only interest is racing to get everything in place for the reforms in 235 BC, and accumulating wealth, wealth, and more wealth (hey, this IS Carthage).

So yeah, it's a cool faction with some great units, but you're really dependent on other powers acting smart, otherwise you'll be stuck role-playing a slow commercial empire :)

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Well, you could spice things up by helping other factions out. If you're rolling in cash, you can afford to hire a full stack of mercenaries and intervene in Greece or Syria, supporting one side or the other. You could reduce the threat from the Ptolemies by helping out the Seleucids, for example, ensuring that the Ptolemies don't get Antioch and become too powerful. Your eventual goal is to recover Phoenicia (Sidon) for yourself, so you have a natural interest in that region.

[Ludens]

Number one rule of forum activity; if no one is talking about the things you want to discuss, then start the conversation. ;)

Besides these fora are a lot slower than I remember, trying to get some life back into them.

No problem with that: your threads are generally worth reading.

[Blxz]

I'm expanding clockwise around the Iberian coastline (Arse, Emporion, etc) (...) Beseiging massalia now

Wait, what? Thats anti-clockwise...

Carthage is a great faction too. I think one of the few games I have ever actually played to completion. Personally I found the anti-barcid route more fun. Gifting or abandoning Lilybeo and possibly corsica and sardinia as well and focusing on my part of africa. After a gradual build-up in Iberia, an explosive expansion to control the whole penisula. After that the world is your oyster, wealth is pouring through the empire and you can expand in any direction. I went on to win but could have possibly played more roleplay-wise. At least rome was more built up by then so the battles were pseudo-epic. Plagued by CTD's though so just wanted to finish as fast as I could by that point.

[FriendlyFire]

Wait, what? Thats anti-clockwise....

Arse, Emporion, Tolosa, Massalia... ahhh, I see your point . Let me rephrase as "clockwise around the Mediterranean coastline beginning on the east coast of Spain". And leaving Vellika untouched so that while I grab the eastern seaboard, the Lusos can (hopefully) go north and west, and from there into Gaul.

[Blxz]

Now that you point it out I feel almost stupid in not noticing that =)

Must be because you mentioned 'Iberian' in the phrase, I assumed the landmass not the ocean.

Doing the old 'hannibal' route has alot to say for it. Good cities and some very decent regionals for hire. Hope you are paying tribute to the luso's or they may find your cities far more juicy and ripe than eleuthoroi cities. Good luck.

[Lysimachos]

Doing the old 'hannibal' route has alot to say for it.

Luckily you don't risk losing the greater part of your army just by crossing the alps.

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

Qarthadastim is most definitely my favorite faction in EB. With some smart expansion, you will get access to every unit type in the game: superb heavy cavalry, hoplites, 2 (!) types of elite spearmen, 2 (!) types of elite swordsmen, elite pikemen, the best light cavalry in the game, and elephants all come right from your home provinces. Expand over toward Crete and you get the best archers around. Reach out a bit further and conquer the Bosphoran Kingdom cities, and you get horse archers. Conquer Italy and you get some great Samnite swordsmen heavy infantry, italian light cavalry, hastati, etc. Lots of powerful ships allow you to keep a strong navy that makes travelling from one side of your empire to the other possible in only a couple turns even after you own 50+ provinces. Pile on top of that possibly the best economic position in the game thanks to the many mine-heavy provinces around you, and you have an incredibly powerful faction.

My favorite thing about the Carthage campaign is you start so spread out, which gives you basically limitless possibilities for how you want to expand. You can go literally anywhere you want once you get your economy running. I'm playing Carthage now and in 167BC, my empire is spread out all over the place. I own all of North Africa, Egypt, Iberia, Italy, Crete, the Bosphoran Kingdom, Ireland, and parts of Greece. Because you get access to so many types of troops, you can easily expand to anywhere and beat any faction since you get hard counters to every unit that could possibly be arrayed against you - ample javelin units for elephants and chariots, archers for mass infantry or light cavalry, and all manner of heavy infantry for whatever purpose suits you.

This is the only campaign I've kept playing for so long, other factions I usually get bored of before 200BC.

[Cambyses]

I dont think you should play the Carthies as if they were Greeks. You have to use the local troops and mercs to get the real enjoyable flavour of a campaign with them with only a few citizen/elite units available in overseas campaigns.

And as for not having peltasts - there are a great many Iberian unit types that can fulfill that role. They might not be quite as good in melee as the Greek version but they are better at the javelin bit.

Also, you will find yourself rolling in money compared to most campaigns, so elephants and those mega-expensive elite ships become affordable - and a necessary expense to stop corruption - soon enough.

[QuintusSertorius]

I dont think you should play the Carthies as if they were Greeks. You have to use the local troops and mercs to get the real enjoyable flavour of a campaign with them with only a few citizen/elite units available in overseas campaigns.

And as for not having peltasts - there are a great many Iberian unit types that can fulfill that role. They might not be quite as good in melee as the Greek version but they are better at the javelin bit.

Also, you will find yourself rolling in money compared to most campaigns, so elephants and those mega-expensive elite ships become affordable - and a necessary expense to stop corruption - soon enough.

As far as I can see, I can produce the hoplite-a-likes and thureophoroi-a-likes in all the starting provinces, which is enough. Merc phalangites and mercs/regionals for everything else and I'm set.

I can always mix the two - Iberians and mercenary peltasts.

Corruption and sinking money is a good point. Though I find navies a more useful means of soaking money than elephants.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Yes! Carthage isn't really Carthage without a gigantic, kick-ass, full-stack battle-fleet made up of the biggest ships available! Carthagianian sailors should be the ones sailing all over the map hunting down the pirates and drowning them in a sea of their own blood....

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I just started a Carthaginian campaign up about a week ago, its 260, and I already have two fleets, one of two biremes you start with and one with two of the Poeni Quninqueremes or whatever the next to most expensive ones are. You make soooooooo much money its a challenge to spend it all. I also am building a third army already since it looks like the Ptolies want to betray me. I may just use move_character to stop them from sending endless armies my way though. It gets boring fighting over empty libyan desert after a while.

On a side note, I last played Carthage back in v1.0 and there the Baleriac Light Infantry were skirmishers. Now it seems as if they are infantry who charge in after tossing a volley of javelins. Only their formation is still loose like a skirmisher's. I'm changing them back but I was wondering what role they functioned as IRL. Their description seems to support skirmisher saying they devastated the Roman Velites in various battles.

[Megas Methuselah]

I missed you, Quintus. Wish I had the time for gaming, but not at the moment.

[Tanit]

For all the Carthage fans out there, keep your eyes open. ;)

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Hmmm, prowling the EB2 boards now Tanit.

[Megas Methuselah]

MINE EYES REMAINETH OPEN'D.