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Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
The only people guaranteed to have it were the starting Sith, and maybe one or two townies iirc. And Beskar died without even being lynched!
Force Breath was a power you could learn as a Padawan and start with as an initiate. That's the problem. There were too many people who could learn it, and too few other powers to learn at those ranks.
Padawans could learn 20 different powers, and obviously wouldn't learn powers they already knew. And Knights and Masters could still learn it. I need to put Force Breath in the Knight or Master category, that will create the effect you're looking for. And perhaps, no one but Kagemusha and Chaotix should have started with Force Breath. (Being a serial killer, you need something to assist in your survival)
I started with Force Breath as well. And deflection of all the uselessness in the world. I believe I didn't even bother using it the first nights.The only people guaranteed to have it were the starting Sith, and maybe one or two townies iirc. And Beskar died without even being lynched!
Force Breath was a power you could learn as a Padawan and start with as an initiate. That's the problem. There were too many people who could learn it, and too few other powers to learn at those ranks.
Padawans could learn 20 different powers, and obviously wouldn't learn powers they already knew. And Knights and Masters could still learn it. I need to put Force Breath in the Knight or Master category, that will create the effect you're looking for. And perhaps, no one but Kagemusha and Chaotix should have started with Force Breath. (Being a serial killer, you need something to assist in your survival)
@Chaotix: You can't imagine how close I was to attacking you at some point... I think it was the "everyone do nothing tonight"-round. I was like "Just learnt Juyo... Fingers itching...", but I realized I'd fall if I did much more wrong and I wanted to be able to win with the town. I was very egoistic. Then again, attacking another powerful role on a gut feeling and for the lulz would be egositic as well, though in another way...
It's too bad Chaotix - I was actively trying to fall and go Dark Jedi throughout the game until I was killed in the 6th day. That is why I fought so hard to live - I wanted to go nuts vigging everything that moved, and would have done so the next night. Oddly, one of my first targets would have been Renata, so I am not sure how that would have gone over with you once you figured out
I'd have followed you till the end though, blazing a path of cinders and corpses.
I'd have followed you till the end though, blazing a path of cinders and corpses.
I could have survived Night 9 if I'd picked Force Jump instead of Telekinesis. Sigh... at least I got to toss Kagemusha around like a ragdoll. :D Eat my passive defenses, Dark Side!
They weren't very good about killing Starting Padawans, either- dcmort was vig-killed, Blackadder and I died Force Melding, and Renata was converted to Sith. landlubber and Beefy were the only ones they managed to kill, and that was without knowing they weren't another of the hordes of Starting Initiates.
Looking at the Night actions used, it was completely wasted in this game. All uses of it that protected someone who was actually attacked either just added another Jedi to the list of dead Jedi, or weren't needed at all. Joooray had the correct defenses to beat both Iggy and Chaotix, Renata's force cloak would have been adequate defense for ACIN's lightsaber vig (and she was also, well, a Sith), and Ignoramus's Force Valor would have blocked Psychonaut's Force Kill.
For that matter, as far as I can tell, me, Greyblades, Tincow, Arpeg, and Blackadder were the only ones that both had it and ever actually used it.
Also, we spent two nights with a GM who wasn't a Dark Jedi, and a Dark Jedi would have an interest in not telling us everything. Belisarius didn't even tell us he was the Grandmaster. He didn't say much of anything, for that matter. Joooray and Ignoramus were the only ones who really told anyone a significant amount of what was in the Jedi Holocron.
I think we needed a couple of Jedi that started out with -3 Dark Side, making them Dark Jedi at the beginning of the game. For the lulz.
Originally Posted by Ironside:
And our attack window was fairly small. We should've gone for you on night 17 though. Would've killed you.
Force Destruct on Chaotix Night 17 would have been a game-winning move. His Force Ghost would have probably still been around to tell everybody Psycho was killing people who weren't Double A, but he wouldn't have been a threat anymore, and Renata would have become the Jedi Grandmaster, pretty much guaranteeing you a win. She wouldn't have been high on anyone's suspect list, and since she alone would have access to some of the most powerful attacks and defenses in the game, I highly doubt she'd either get lynched or vig-killed. It would have looked a little suspicious that you didn't attack her again after knocking off Iggy and Chaotix so fast, but there wouldn't have been enough time left to realize that. Besides, Morichro could have explained it for at least a night or two, or her new apprentice could have attacked her once or twice just to make it look like the Sith cared about killing her.And our attack window was fairly small. We should've gone for you on night 17 though. Would've killed you.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
The Sith did not go all-out with their offense when it counted. That's all. Also, Chaotix (and other nuisances) could have been killed earlier on in the game when they were less powerful. Starting Masters and Knights needed to be eliminated to give the Sith a true advantage.
Problem was, they didn't know who some of them were at first, and the rest were easily used as lynchbait. Kage killed pevergreen just about instantly because he'd been revealed as a Master on day 1, and Jeb got killed once it become obvious he couldn't be used as lynchbait, but Belisarius wasn't known by most to be Sol Jade until he died (which is probably the only reason the Sith didn't kill him faster), and the other 3 Starting Knights were all lynchbait, at least at first. Joooray was attacked at night by Chaotix about 7 times, Ignoramus was a suspect for weeks, and Chaotix was a known Dark Jedi. If you're a mafia, these guys won't be first on your "kill these guys" list. They have no excuse for not targeting Joooray and Chaotix after they became Grandmaster, but until then, it's not that surprising.The Sith did not go all-out with their offense when it counted. That's all. Also, Chaotix (and other nuisances) could have been killed earlier on in the game when they were less powerful. Starting Masters and Knights needed to be eliminated to give the Sith a true advantage.
They weren't very good about killing Starting Padawans, either- dcmort was vig-killed, Blackadder and I died Force Melding, and Renata was converted to Sith. landlubber and Beefy were the only ones they managed to kill, and that was without knowing they weren't another of the hordes of Starting Initiates.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
How this can be employed to the town's benefit:
This is a risky move. The risks are detailed and known, which is that you can save someone's life with your own defenses, but if those defenses fail, you die, and it's possible your target dies as well. When it should be used, is after you've learned tier III defenses, two of them, and have enough passive boosts to withstand attacks by the Sith. By using Force Meld, you are saying to the Sith, I WANT YOU TO TRY TO KILL ME.
If you are actually ready for the Sith to kill you off, or you think that the Sith will waste time trying to penetrate your defenses, or you have an exceptionally important target to defend, like a Grandmaster with Force Far Sight, then okay, use this power. Otherwise, there is a massive risk of unnecessary death.
Alternatively, you can be an idiot like me, assume you're more powerful than you actually are, and use it every night to protect someone at random. I even melded Kagemusha, Chaotix, and Psychonaut, all in the early game. - Force Meld- Can be used to join another in battle.
How this can be employed to the town's benefit:
This is a risky move. The risks are detailed and known, which is that you can save someone's life with your own defenses, but if those defenses fail, you die, and it's possible your target dies as well. When it should be used, is after you've learned tier III defenses, two of them, and have enough passive boosts to withstand attacks by the Sith. By using Force Meld, you are saying to the Sith, I WANT YOU TO TRY TO KILL ME.
If you are actually ready for the Sith to kill you off, or you think that the Sith will waste time trying to penetrate your defenses, or you have an exceptionally important target to defend, like a Grandmaster with Force Far Sight, then okay, use this power. Otherwise, there is a massive risk of unnecessary death.
Looking at the Night actions used, it was completely wasted in this game. All uses of it that protected someone who was actually attacked either just added another Jedi to the list of dead Jedi, or weren't needed at all. Joooray had the correct defenses to beat both Iggy and Chaotix, Renata's force cloak would have been adequate defense for ACIN's lightsaber vig (and she was also, well, a Sith), and Ignoramus's Force Valor would have blocked Psychonaut's Force Kill.
For that matter, as far as I can tell, me, Greyblades, Tincow, Arpeg, and Blackadder were the only ones that both had it and ever actually used it.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Wasn't used very much this game, actually, which is surprising. It can stop so many force attacks, and it will force the Sith to attack with sabers, which allows moves such as Grip and Push to be more useful as defenses. Morichro was still overpowered, even if it allowed recruitment and saber attacks to still succeed. I am dumbfounded it wasn't used more.
Yeah, why didn't anyone use it? Not many people used active abilities, so you'd almost certainly block someone killing someone else. You might block a scanner or a Force Meld user, but with all the good those powers did in this game, it wouldn't have hurt much. Unless you blocked the Jedi GM, you probably wouldn't do any harm to the Jedi side.- Force Morichro- Acts as a roleblocking power.
Wasn't used very much this game, actually, which is surprising. It can stop so many force attacks, and it will force the Sith to attack with sabers, which allows moves such as Grip and Push to be more useful as defenses. Morichro was still overpowered, even if it allowed recruitment and saber attacks to still succeed. I am dumbfounded it wasn't used more.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
It was in the Jedi holocrons. It was the Grandmaster's prerogative to inform the town or keep them in the dark. For the most part, a keeping in the dark strategy was chosen, and only certain information was released. In theory, plus a realistic chance of people figuring this out = I believe my points are still valid. That said, I agree some of what I offered as solutions required deeper knowledge of the game, which means knowledge of the holocron data, which means it was always up to the Grandmaster (and informed Force Ghosts) to perform some of the organizing required to pull off these tactics. But it was all do-able.
The problem was, the force ghosts and Grandmasters didn't do much for most of the game, until Chaotix became GM and everyone started obeying his every command. When the Jedi force ghosts were pever, Beefy, Cecil, and later on, Double A and Khazaar, we had several inactive force ghosts and pevergreen, who is, by his own admission, not very good at organizing players or scum hunting. I told him I had Force Meld, and he never told me to do anything with it, so I just continued Melding people at random.It was in the Jedi holocrons. It was the Grandmaster's prerogative to inform the town or keep them in the dark. For the most part, a keeping in the dark strategy was chosen, and only certain information was released. In theory, plus a realistic chance of people figuring this out = I believe my points are still valid. That said, I agree some of what I offered as solutions required deeper knowledge of the game, which means knowledge of the holocron data, which means it was always up to the Grandmaster (and informed Force Ghosts) to perform some of the organizing required to pull off these tactics. But it was all do-able.
Also, we spent two nights with a GM who wasn't a Dark Jedi, and a Dark Jedi would have an interest in not telling us everything. Belisarius didn't even tell us he was the Grandmaster. He didn't say much of anything, for that matter. Joooray and Ignoramus were the only ones who really told anyone a significant amount of what was in the Jedi Holocron.
Originally Posted by Chaotix:
Either the Jedi or the Sith could have offed me easily, and I'm surprised I wasn't lynched at all. The town certainly didn't trust me until I became GM, and even then it was shaky. I knew from the beginning that my plan would have to be to seem like a pro-town vigilante, and whenever I told people my victory conditions I always lied and said "Destroy all Sith and survive". Managing to hit a Sith on the first night was really lucky and it helped a lot, because I then had credibility. My goal was definitely to become the Grandmaster ASAP, because of the holocron and the "Don't lynch the GM" mentality that the town had; the extra power boost was an added perk.
I think some people tried to lynch you several times, but we always had some reason not to lynch you. I can't believe you weren't a bigger target for vigilantes, although the fact that several of them targeted people almost at random (I'm looking at you, ACIN) certainly helped. I think the day after Joooray killed Stuck in Pi, I asked him why he didn't target you, or someone else who was actually acting suspicious.Either the Jedi or the Sith could have offed me easily, and I'm surprised I wasn't lynched at all. The town certainly didn't trust me until I became GM, and even then it was shaky. I knew from the beginning that my plan would have to be to seem like a pro-town vigilante, and whenever I told people my victory conditions I always lied and said "Destroy all Sith and survive". Managing to hit a Sith on the first night was really lucky and it helped a lot, because I then had credibility. My goal was definitely to become the Grandmaster ASAP, because of the holocron and the "Don't lynch the GM" mentality that the town had; the extra power boost was an added perk.
Originally Posted by Chaotix:
I also tried at one point to assemble a group of Dark Jedi, but I quickly found out that there simply weren't any to assemble with. Ignoramus, Diamondeye, and Renata were all part of a group I put together that I called the "Order of the Black Knights"; they all had vigilante abilities so I thought I could get them to fall eventually and join me in earnest. By the time I became GM, everybody had vig abilities so the Order was no longer needed. Still couldn't get anyone to fall, though. Diana actively opposed me and actually fell on her own; you can bet I was pissed when we killed her.
I'm honestly suprised there weren't more Dark Jedi. I kind of expected Diamondeye, ACIN, and even Ignoramus to be one.I also tried at one point to assemble a group of Dark Jedi, but I quickly found out that there simply weren't any to assemble with. Ignoramus, Diamondeye, and Renata were all part of a group I put together that I called the "Order of the Black Knights"; they all had vigilante abilities so I thought I could get them to fall eventually and join me in earnest. By the time I became GM, everybody had vig abilities so the Order was no longer needed. Still couldn't get anyone to fall, though. Diana actively opposed me and actually fell on her own; you can bet I was pissed when we killed her.
I think we needed a couple of Jedi that started out with -3 Dark Side, making them Dark Jedi at the beginning of the game. For the lulz.
Originally Posted by TinCow:
While I'm sure some of that could have been gleamed from the write-ups, their sheer size deterred me from doing much analysis of them. Lots of text may make for a good narrative, but I doubt it the majority of players have the time to be able to read it in sufficient detail to pull out all the game mechanics you apparently put in.
Notice that I bolded the only relevant information in each writeup. Saber form, saber color, and keywords which describe the various force powers used offensively and defensively.While I'm sure some of that could have been gleamed from the write-ups, their sheer size deterred me from doing much analysis of them. Lots of text may make for a good narrative, but I doubt it the majority of players have the time to be able to read it in sufficient detail to pull out all the game mechanics you apparently put in.
That was meant to aid people in translating it back down into the bare bones game components. Not that I made it obvious every time what I was referring to, and intentionally. Sometimes you have to work with partial information.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Notice that I bolded the only relevant information in each writeup. Saber form, saber color, and keywords which describe the various force powers used offensively and defensively.
That was meant to aid people in translating it back down into the bare bones game components. Not that I made it obvious every time what I was referring to, and intentionally. Sometimes you have to work with partial information.
The most useful parts of your write-ups by far were the promotion information (which I used to catch Kagemusha) and the lightsaber colors (which I used to catch Psychonaut). Also helpful was being able to figure out what attacks the Sith were most commonly using and then checking the Holocron to figure out how to defend against them.Notice that I bolded the only relevant information in each writeup. Saber form, saber color, and keywords which describe the various force powers used offensively and defensively.
That was meant to aid people in translating it back down into the bare bones game components. Not that I made it obvious every time what I was referring to, and intentionally. Sometimes you have to work with partial information.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Notice that I bolded the only relevant information in each writeup. Saber form, saber color, and keywords which describe the various force powers used offensively and defensively.
That was meant to aid people in translating it back down into the bare bones game components. Not that I made it obvious every time what I was referring to, and intentionally. Sometimes you have to work with partial information.
You also added the attacker's defenses in sometimes, and used all of the moves involved, even ones that didn't have any effect at all, so it was sometimes hard to figure out just what was blocking what.Notice that I bolded the only relevant information in each writeup. Saber form, saber color, and keywords which describe the various force powers used offensively and defensively.
That was meant to aid people in translating it back down into the bare bones game components. Not that I made it obvious every time what I was referring to, and intentionally. Sometimes you have to work with partial information.
Originally Posted by Chaotix:
The most useful parts of your write-ups by far were the promotion information (which I used to catch Kagemusha) and the lightsaber colors (which I used to catch Psychonaut). Also helpful was being able to figure out what attacks the Sith were most commonly using and then checking the Holocron to figure out how to defend against them.
Depended on the Sith. Like they said, Ironside used Scream/Crush a lot, Renata used Orb/Energy and Lightning/Chain, as did all of the Jedi/Dark Jedi, Psycho used Wound/Choke/Kill and Lightning/Chain most of the time, and Kage used just about everything.The most useful parts of your write-ups by far were the promotion information (which I used to catch Kagemusha) and the lightsaber colors (which I used to catch Psychonaut). Also helpful was being able to figure out what attacks the Sith were most commonly using and then checking the Holocron to figure out how to defend against them.
Truly epic game Pizza, was great to be reincarnated and given a second chance too, although I blew it.
I'd assumed that with Force Meld I wouldn't be fighting on my own (i.e: I'd team up with my protection target against a possible attacker), otherwise I wouldn't have used it and subsequently died. Either way, failure on my part for being tempted to take a more active night role and not realising my relative weakness compared to the Sith.
I'd assumed that with Force Meld I wouldn't be fighting on my own (i.e: I'd team up with my protection target against a possible attacker), otherwise I wouldn't have used it and subsequently died. Either way, failure on my part for being tempted to take a more active night role and not realising my relative weakness compared to the Sith.
Originally Posted by ArpeggiateTHIS:
Truly epic game Pizza, was great to be reincarnated and given a second chance too, although I blew it.
I'd assumed that with Force Meld I wouldn't be fighting on my own (i.e: I'd team up with my protection target against a possible attacker), otherwise I wouldn't have used it and subsequently died. Either way, failure on my part for being tempted to take a more active night role and not realising my relative weakness compared to the Sith.
I kind of thought that too- if it did work that way, I think TinCow, Blackadder, and Ignoramus had enough defenses between the 3 of them to block both Force Kill and Force Destruction (Or rather, would have if Ignoramus used Force Protection first instead of second), and Greyblades would have survived using it on Joooray.Truly epic game Pizza, was great to be reincarnated and given a second chance too, although I blew it.
I'd assumed that with Force Meld I wouldn't be fighting on my own (i.e: I'd team up with my protection target against a possible attacker), otherwise I wouldn't have used it and subsequently died. Either way, failure on my part for being tempted to take a more active night role and not realising my relative weakness compared to the Sith.
With us, we were protecting someone no more capable of blocking Force Crush than we were, so it wouldn't have mattered anyway. Well, actually, both of us had a defense capable of blocking Force Crush- you had Saber Throw and I had Force Jump- we just weren't using it.
The worst part is, the Night 8 write-up clearly showed wideyed evading Ironside's Force Crush with Jump, which meant anyone like me who was paying attention to the write-ups should have been able to figure out it was a smart defense to use while Ironside remained alive, since Crush/Scream was the only Force Power he ever used.
Can't believe Chaotix just randomly first nighted me like that. 
Originally Posted by Beskar:
Can't believe Chaotix just randomly first nighted me like that.
If it makes you feel better, I wasn't expecting you to be Sith. Can't believe Chaotix just randomly first nighted me like that.
IIRC, my reasoning was something along the lines of "I need to test out my skills, and Beskar always catches me when I'm mafia".
And then, of course, Sasaki took credit for it to confuse everyone.
Originally Posted by Choxorn:
I kind of thought that too- if it did work that way, I think TinCow, Blackadder, and Ignoramus had enough defenses between the 3 of them to block both Force Kill and Force Destruction (Or rather, would have if Ignoramus used Force Protection first instead of second), and Greyblades would have survived using it on Joooray.
Nah, when Psycho won, he also used force Plague. It completely removes all rank bonuses and adds -1 to rank. Only Force Sight worked at defense when that combo was used. I kind of thought that too- if it did work that way, I think TinCow, Blackadder, and Ignoramus had enough defenses between the 3 of them to block both Force Kill and Force Destruction (Or rather, would have if Ignoramus used Force Protection first instead of second), and Greyblades would have survived using it on Joooray.
Originally Posted by Choxorn:
The worst part is, the Night 8 write-up clearly showed wideyed evading Ironside's Force Crush with Jump, which meant anyone like me who was paying attention to the write-ups should have been able to figure out it was a smart defense to use while Ironside remained alive, since Crush/Scream was the only Force Power he ever used.
Always hard when you have 3 different attacks to bother about. Our biggest mistake was missing that some force powers could beat stealth/cloak. Psycho started with Improved vision and used both wound and drain on it, so the problem never really came up until Chaotix was known to have one. I killed one early stealth user, but we never really came around about that, until Chaotix fried Diana.The worst part is, the Night 8 write-up clearly showed wideyed evading Ironside's Force Crush with Jump, which meant anyone like me who was paying attention to the write-ups should have been able to figure out it was a smart defense to use while Ironside remained alive, since Crush/Scream was the only Force Power he ever used.
Oh, when giving your victory for the Sith example, did you consider Chaotix's passive defenses ATPG? All those passive defenses giving ranks defenses+ some of the stances (that I never even thought of), made the endgame really hard for a non tier 2,3 user. I think replacing choke with orb as the second attack would've worked, but that's one small window.
Blocking Final Judgement would've saved Csargo as well would it?
Did Final Judgement work on both defense slots if a double attack was used as well? Or only the first?
Originally Posted by Ironside:
Oh, when giving your victory for the Sith example, did you consider Chaotix's passive defenses ATPG? All those passive defenses giving ranks defenses+ some of the stances (that I never even thought of), made the endgame really hard for a non tier 2,3 user.
True enough, I hadn't thought of that. You might have needed tier II scream. IIRC, Wideyedwanderer ended up getting a couple tier II powers before the game had ended, but it might have been a round after that night. The timing was really bad for you guys, it is quite difficult to defeat a Grandmaster who has been a Knight or better the entire game with tier I force powers. Ideally, it should have been WEW blocking Chaotix and Renata dealing the finishing blows, but WEW never got Morichro due to random chance.Oh, when giving your victory for the Sith example, did you consider Chaotix's passive defenses ATPG? All those passive defenses giving ranks defenses+ some of the stances (that I never even thought of), made the endgame really hard for a non tier 2,3 user.
Some things, like Renata not getting Force Breath, affected the game a lot. Unfortunately in order to be fair I had to randomize what people got, otherwise the game would simply be Askthepizzaguy basically declaring who wins. A combination of bad timing (needing to attack with a recently acquired Sith apprentice of all things, instead of with two experienced Sith) and bad luck (random chance on the Force lottery) bit you guys hard at the end there.
That's why it was so vital to either keep Psychonaut alive or ensure that Chaotix had died before then. Odds of victory drop steeply the longer Chaotix survives.
Originally Posted by :
Blocking Final Judgement would've saved Csargo as well would it?
Yes, but Csargo dying was not critical to your victory, as he was recruitable and already had powerful dark side defense moves.Blocking Final Judgement would've saved Csargo as well would it?
Originally Posted by :
Did Final Judgement work on both defense slots if a double attack was used as well? Or only the first?
I don't think it ever came up in the game, I'd have to check.Did Final Judgement work on both defense slots if a double attack was used as well? Or only the first?
I'm not sure how I would rule on that, to be honest. This game was so complicated that I couldn't foresee all the combinations ahead of time, and I had to make up some rules/adjustments on the fly.
I might have ruled that it acted like a passive defense in this instance, and had it absorb/counter every move that it could, just like battle mind. It was a very powerful move that needed to be blocked or otherwise countered.
Also-
The move Force Plague would have reduced Chaotix by an extraordinary degree, making him extremely vulnerable to sabers, assuming you penetrated his cloak with the first force attack, even if the attack still failed. He would have been reduced in rank by at least 2 because of a lack of passive boosts. And he wasn't using cloak on that night.
The move Force Suppression/Breach/Sever would have also negated the effects of Final Judgment, allowing the user of suppression/breach/sever to get around Final Judgment as a defense. I believe WEW had that move as part of his recruitment package. It would have been effective against Chaotix.
Edit: Yeah I seem to remember Chaotix getting his butt kicked repeatedly by sabers, due to the dark side defense Affliction/Plague. He was known to be vulnerable to sabers because of that move, but it slipped everyone's mind, apparently, including mine until just now. He was always on offense in those cases, not defense. So close!
The move Force Plague would have reduced Chaotix by an extraordinary degree, making him extremely vulnerable to sabers, assuming you penetrated his cloak with the first force attack, even if the attack still failed. He would have been reduced in rank by at least 2 because of a lack of passive boosts. And he wasn't using cloak on that night.
The move Force Suppression/Breach/Sever would have also negated the effects of Final Judgment, allowing the user of suppression/breach/sever to get around Final Judgment as a defense. I believe WEW had that move as part of his recruitment package. It would have been effective against Chaotix.
Edit: Yeah I seem to remember Chaotix getting his butt kicked repeatedly by sabers, due to the dark side defense Affliction/Plague. He was known to be vulnerable to sabers because of that move, but it slipped everyone's mind, apparently, including mine until just now. He was always on offense in those cases, not defense. So close!
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Yes, but Csargo dying was not critical to your victory, as he was recruitable and already had powerful dark side defense moves.
I was more thinking that he would be alive during the day, with WeW... We really lost this at night 17. And you know what happened night 17... Not angry about it anymore, but it still sucks. Yes, but Csargo dying was not critical to your victory, as he was recruitable and already had powerful dark side defense moves.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Also-
The move Force Plague would have reduced Chaotix by an extraordinary degree, making him extremely vulnerable to sabers, assuming you penetrated his cloak with the first force attack, even if the attack still failed. He would have been reduced in rank by at least 2 because of a lack of passive boosts. And he wasn't using cloak on that night.
Which night are we talking about? Renata didn't even get afflection. This would be n14 or something.Also-
The move Force Plague would have reduced Chaotix by an extraordinary degree, making him extremely vulnerable to sabers, assuming you penetrated his cloak with the first force attack, even if the attack still failed. He would have been reduced in rank by at least 2 because of a lack of passive boosts. And he wasn't using cloak on that night.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
The move Force Suppression/Breach/Sever would have also negated the effects of Final Judgment, allowing the user of suppression/breach/sever to get around Final Judgment as a defense. I believe WEW had that move as part of his recruitment package. It would have been effective against Chaotix.
Complete counter and not just preventing the reflection from killing you? That's reasonable and harshly balanced (but still balanced). Hints about the reflection and that it had a counter might've been fair though. It's possible to figure out the counter without trial and error, unlike morichro. And Final Judgement is sickly op if you have to do trial and error on it.The move Force Suppression/Breach/Sever would have also negated the effects of Final Judgment, allowing the user of suppression/breach/sever to get around Final Judgment as a defense. I believe WEW had that move as part of his recruitment package. It would have been effective against Chaotix.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Edit: Yeah I seem to remember Chaotix getting his butt kicked repeatedly by sabers, due to the dark side defense Affliction/Plague. He was known to be vulnerable to sabers because of that move, but it slipped everyone's mind, apparently, including mine until just now. He was always on offense in those cases, not defense. So close!
That's only one night, when attacking Kage. Unless Jooray had it or something. I did notice it, but we didn't really have any point of using it. When Psychonaut did remembered this one (a good call), we were busy on Igno. Useful only on n18 when Psycho got roleblocked and that night did Chaotix use trance. Edit: Yeah I seem to remember Chaotix getting his butt kicked repeatedly by sabers, due to the dark side defense Affliction/Plague. He was known to be vulnerable to sabers because of that move, but it slipped everyone's mind, apparently, including mine until just now. He was always on offense in those cases, not defense. So close!
Plague+Destruction+Saber would've been a really good combo I agree. Only replacing saber with Oblivion was better and that's mainly because a lot of people used the force push line.
Destruction and Oblivion would be a nasty combo. I really think for ultimate nastiness, the Sith team at one point could have had the Master do Plague/Sever + Oblivion and Saber, and have the apprentice do Choke II and Scream II. Those are some of your more powerful attacks. Drain, Lightning, and Orb had too many counters.
However, if for some reason Oblivion/Saber/Choke/Scream didn't work, doing Drain, Lightning, Orb, and Morichro might have done something. If at first you fail, switch up the attacks and see if something gets through.
However, if for some reason Oblivion/Saber/Choke/Scream didn't work, doing Drain, Lightning, Orb, and Morichro might have done something. If at first you fail, switch up the attacks and see if something gets through.
It was also never a possible combo, since Psycho got Deadly Sight, Combustion, and Oblivion on Nights 16, 17, and 18 respectively. He could have used Deadly Sight on Night 17, but he had more powerful force powers than that, so that would have been pointless. He was roleblocked on Night 18 and then lynched, so he never could have (successfully) used either Combustion or Oblivion. (Well, he could have used Combustion on Seon, but how was he supposed to know that?). Renata and wideyed never got higher than Deadly Sight.
Kage could have used some combination like that, since he had every non-Light side power in the game by Night 13, but he's one Sith, not two.
Kage could have used some combination like that, since he had every non-Light side power in the game by Night 13, but he's one Sith, not two.
Originally Posted by Choxorn:
Kage could have used some combination like that, since he had every non-Light side power in the game by Night 13, but he's one Sith, not two.
Kage resurrected Beskar and investigated and revealed Ironside as mafia.Kage could have used some combination like that, since he had every non-Light side power in the game by Night 13, but he's one Sith, not two.
Kage could have coordinated with the rule of two team, since they ultimately have the same goal; Kage just wants to outlive them. A minor detail, really...
I enjoyed reading the updates. Though I played little part in the game itself.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Kage resurrected Beskar and investigated and revealed Ironside as mafia.
Kage could have coordinated with the rule of two team, since they ultimately have the same goal; Kage just wants to outlive them. A minor detail, really...
I even said in thread for Kage to contact me, as we would have even worked with him. Kage resurrected Beskar and investigated and revealed Ironside as mafia.
Kage could have coordinated with the rule of two team, since they ultimately have the same goal; Kage just wants to outlive them. A minor detail, really...
Out of boredom, I looked at the saber combat chart and made this chart of which Forms beat which, if both fighters were the same level, and if all other defenses and attacks are ignored. The Column on the left is the form of the defender, the Row on the top is the form of the attacker. All of the info in the chart is from the point of view of the defender- for example, Makashi always beats Shii-Cho, so in the Shii-Cho row, "Loss" is listed against Makashi, in the Makashi row "Win" is listed against Shii-Cho.
As one attacker can't fight multiple defenders, the modifiers that Shii-Cho, Makashi, and Djem So get against multiple opponents are listed only in the defense rows.
I conclude from this that:
-Shii-Cho sucked and nobody used it, it was useful for fighting multiple opponents, in which case it beat anything but Makashi.
-Niman I was mostly bad, but because of the +1 to two-lightsaber combat, Niman II could only be defeated by Shii-Cho, and it would only even Tie against Soresu and itself. Ataru II, on the other hand, has little real advantage over Ataru I- it was only good for fighting Juyo. Against Makashi, Shii-Cho, and Soresu, it would do worse (although Soresu already easily beat Ataru anyway) Juyo II's only difference from Juyo I was +1 against Makashi and -1 against Soresu.
-Most are about the same in numbers of Wins, Losses, and Ties, but Shi-Cho and Djem So become much better against multiple opponents, and Makashi becomes much worse against multiple opponents.
-Djem So was the worst form to attack with. It wasn't very good at defending either, unless you fought multiple opponents.
-The largest difference between two forms is Niman II and Djem So, when the Niman II user fights alone- Niman II gets +2 in that case, while Djem So gets -2, for a total difference of 4. The only way a Djem So user could defeat a lone Niman II user would be to outrank them by 2 (only possible if you're the Jedi GM/Sith Lord and they're a Knight or Sith Apprentice, since nobody of lower rank than that could attack people) and have both Battle Meditation and Battle Precognition. Well, or use the correct Force Defense, or be attacked by multiple people.
As one attacker can't fight multiple defenders, the modifiers that Shii-Cho, Makashi, and Djem So get against multiple opponents are listed only in the defense rows.
Code:
*Win if fighting multiple opponents
**Loss if fighting multiple opponents
*** Tie if fighting multiple opponents
Shii-Cho Makashi Soresu Ataru I Ataru II Djem So Niman I Niman II Juyo I Juyo II
Shii-Cho Tie* Loss Loss* Loss* Tie* Tie* Win Win Tie* Tie*
Makashi Win Tie** Tie** Tie** Win*** Win*** Loss Loss Tie** Loss
Soresu Win Tie Tie Win Win Tie Tie Tie Loss Loss
Ataru I Win Tie Loss Tie Tie Win Tie Loss Tie Tie
Ataru II Tie Loss Loss Tie Tie Win Tie Loss Win Win
Djem So Tie* Loss* Tie* Loss Loss Tie* Loss Loss Win Win
Niman I Loss Win Tie Tie Tie Win Tie Loss Loss Loss
Niman II Loss Win Tie Win Win Win Win Tie Win Win
Juyo I Tie Tie Win Tie Loss Loss Win Loss Tie Tie
Juyo II Tie Win Win Tie Loss Loss Win Loss Tie Tie
-Shii-Cho sucked and nobody used it, it was useful for fighting multiple opponents, in which case it beat anything but Makashi.
-Niman I was mostly bad, but because of the +1 to two-lightsaber combat, Niman II could only be defeated by Shii-Cho, and it would only even Tie against Soresu and itself. Ataru II, on the other hand, has little real advantage over Ataru I- it was only good for fighting Juyo. Against Makashi, Shii-Cho, and Soresu, it would do worse (although Soresu already easily beat Ataru anyway) Juyo II's only difference from Juyo I was +1 against Makashi and -1 against Soresu.
-Most are about the same in numbers of Wins, Losses, and Ties, but Shi-Cho and Djem So become much better against multiple opponents, and Makashi becomes much worse against multiple opponents.
-Djem So was the worst form to attack with. It wasn't very good at defending either, unless you fought multiple opponents.
-The largest difference between two forms is Niman II and Djem So, when the Niman II user fights alone- Niman II gets +2 in that case, while Djem So gets -2, for a total difference of 4. The only way a Djem So user could defeat a lone Niman II user would be to outrank them by 2 (only possible if you're the Jedi GM/Sith Lord and they're a Knight or Sith Apprentice, since nobody of lower rank than that could attack people) and have both Battle Meditation and Battle Precognition. Well, or use the correct Force Defense, or be attacked by multiple people.
Awesome work, choxorn!
In case people are wondering, I intentionally made the forms and defenses unequal. I wanted there to be some benefit to analyzing the game and playing smart, while still leaving open the possibility of a rare, unusual power defeating that move.
Force Destruction needed to be a power that was feared; Oblivion as well. There were fewer defenses for that.
This also meant that the Grandmaster, at the end, would have learned most of the necessary defenses; but even with perfect knowledge, the unequal nature of the attacks and defenses meant that only those possessing the rare or atypical defenses to defeat powerful attacks would be able to survive.
The saber forms, I admit, I could have checked how they matched up better. A couple of instances, the forms were good against each other, which meant that's exactly the same as having zero benefit. I designed how they matched against each other in a span of 20 minutes; there was too much else to design, and I felt it was good enough.
Is anyone interested in seeing some of the role PMs I still have?
In case people are wondering, I intentionally made the forms and defenses unequal. I wanted there to be some benefit to analyzing the game and playing smart, while still leaving open the possibility of a rare, unusual power defeating that move.
Force Destruction needed to be a power that was feared; Oblivion as well. There were fewer defenses for that.
This also meant that the Grandmaster, at the end, would have learned most of the necessary defenses; but even with perfect knowledge, the unequal nature of the attacks and defenses meant that only those possessing the rare or atypical defenses to defeat powerful attacks would be able to survive.
The saber forms, I admit, I could have checked how they matched up better. A couple of instances, the forms were good against each other, which meant that's exactly the same as having zero benefit. I designed how they matched against each other in a span of 20 minutes; there was too much else to design, and I felt it was good enough.
Is anyone interested in seeing some of the role PMs I still have?
So I drew... as in didn't lose? Awesome.
I am going to read this someday. A daunting task as I fell off the earth during the holidays and didn't keep up.
I am going to read this someday. A daunting task as I fell off the earth during the holidays and didn't keep up.
Originally Posted by Sigurd:
So I drew... as in didn't lose? Awesome.
I am going to read this someday. A daunting task as I fell off the earth during the holidays and didn't keep up.
I wondered where you went. I had a sad face that I didn't know whether or not you thought it was good.So I drew... as in didn't lose? Awesome.
I am going to read this someday. A daunting task as I fell off the earth during the holidays and didn't keep up.
Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy:
Is anyone interested in seeing some of the role PMs I still have?
Sure, Chaotix's (and/or another dark jedi) and Kage's is most interesting for me, even if I think some is interested in Psycho's as well.Is anyone interested in seeing some of the role PMs I still have?
Kagemusha
Darth Kojiro, Dark Lord of the Sith
Lightsaber- Red (Murder) / Lightsaber- Red (Murder)
Lightsaber- Blue (Vigilante and Defense) / Lightsaber- Blue (Vigilante and Defense)
Darth Kojiro, Dark Lord of the Sith
Lightsaber- Red (Murder) / Lightsaber- Red (Murder)
Lightsaber- Blue (Vigilante and Defense) / Lightsaber- Blue (Vigilante and Defense)
UPDATED INFORMATION:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Background Information:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Day Actions:
- You may vote to lynch.
Night Actions:
- Your passive abilities are automatically applied.
- You may use two active defenses. (Deflection, speed, barrier, etc)
- You may choose up to two saber forms to use during combat. (Makashi, Juyo, etc) Tell me which form is used on which target!!!
- You may perform two other active abilities (investigate, murder, vigilante kill, roleblock, etc)
Special Ability: MIND CONTROL
If the other Sith team is destroyed, you may create another Sith team by corrupting the Jedi personally. Those Sith still won't know who you are, and those Sith will actually be your enemy. But, you'll be dividing the remaining Jedi against each other. You cannot use this power unless the other Sith team is destroyed! If you target someone who is immune to your influence, your identity will be revealed to them and then you will be exposed to the entire Jedi Council, so be careful. The Jedi you corrupt and turn into a Sith will become a brand new Sith Lord, and will attempt to corrupt people on his or her own, to try to create an apprentice for him or herself. At that point, stand back, and allow your unwitting pawn to destroy the Jedi for you. Then, when your puppets' usefulness has come to an end.... strike them both down with all of your hatred, and your mastery of the Dark Side will be complete.
To put it in Mafia terms, you are the Sith Mastermind. You create new cults of two when the first cult of two is finally wiped out. This will continue until all the Jedi are slain... or you are. Be warned, although you are superior to your new apprentices in every possible way, it is possible that they could figure out who you are, and work together to eliminate you. Wield this double-edged sword with great care.
Mafia Quicktopic:
http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/36TDDGkQjTZgJ
You will be asking questions frequently, and submitting complicated night actions. Use this quicktopic to plan your moves and express your thoughts. It will be just you and me in this quicktopic, so I encourage you to speak freely.
Victory Condition:
- Total Victory: Be the last one standing on the Penance, so your fleet can arrive and conquer Coruscant.
- Minor Victory: You are slain, but the Jedi Order is destroyed by your apprentices. They conquer Coruscant with your fleet.
- Draw: A third party takes control of the Penance, and you and your apprentices are slain. Your fleet arrives anyway.
- Total Defeat: You are destroyed and the Jedi prevail and retake the Penance.
Known Lightsaber Forms:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Known Passive Force Powers:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Known Active Force Powers:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Psychonaut
Darth Sigurd, Dark Lord of the Sith
Lightsaber- Red (Murder) / Lightsaber- Red (Murder)
Lightsaber- Green (Attack/Defend) / Lightsaber- Green (Attack/Defend)
Darth Sigurd, Dark Lord of the Sith
Lightsaber- Red (Murder) / Lightsaber- Red (Murder)
Lightsaber- Green (Attack/Defend) / Lightsaber- Green (Attack/Defend)
UPDATED INFORMATION:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Background Information:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Day Actions:
- You may vote to lynch.
Night Actions:
- Your passive abilities are automatically applied.
- You may use two active defenses. (Deflection, speed, barrier, etc)
- You may choose two saber forms to use during combat. (Makashi, Juyo, etc)
- You may perform two other active abilities (investigate, murder, vigilante kill, roleblock, etc)
Special Ability: MIND CONTROL
(deleted to make space)
Mafia Quicktopic:
http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/L5taZ6VAUs7q
You will be asking questions frequently, and submitting complicated night actions. Use this quicktopic to plan your moves and express your thoughts. It will be just you, your apprentice (Beskar), any new recruits, and me in this quicktopic, so I encourage you to speak freely.
Victory Condition:
- Total Victory: Destroy all other force-users on this vessel, besides yourself and your apprentice, and take control of the Penance.
- Major Victory: You are slain in battle, but your apprentices go on to destroy all other force-users on this vessel, and take control of the Penance.
- Minor Defeat: The Jedi are destroyed, but so are you and your apprentices.
- Total Defeat: You and your apprentices are slain, and the Jedi regain control of the Penance.
Known Lightsaber Forms:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Known Passive Force Powers:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Known Active Force Powers:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Chaotix
Chaotix- Supreme Grandmaster Bane Anded
Lightsaber- Purple (Attack or Defend) / Lightsaber- Purple (Attack or Defend)
Chaotix- Supreme Grandmaster Bane Anded
Lightsaber- Purple (Attack or Defend) / Lightsaber- Purple (Attack or Defend)
Light Side Enlightenment.
UPDATED INFORMATION:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Background Information: (Updated)
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Day Actions:
- You may vote to lynch.
Night Actions:
- Your passive abilities are automatically applied.
- You may use two active defenses. (Deflection, speed, barrier, etc)
- You may choose two saber forms to use during combat. (Makashi, Juyo, etc)
- You may perform two other active abilities (investigate, murder, vigilante kill, roleblock, etc)
Victory Condition:
- Total Victory: You survive the game and there are no other true Jedi or Sith remaining. Others like you, if any: acceptable.
- Major Victory: You destroy all the Jedi, and win with the Sith. Survival is not optional.
- Average Victory: You destroy all the Sith, and win with the Jedi. Survival is not optional.
- Total Defeat: You die.
Known Lightsaber Forms:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Known Passive Force Powers:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Known Active Force Powers:
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
ATPG - if nobody knew about the dark lord of the sith, how did the town become aware of his presense? Someone just announced it at some point.
I'm assuming the Holocron revealed information as to his existance to whichever Grandmaster told us (I forget which one)
Sorry I didn't get around to replying to this until now...
ATPG: Loved the game!!! It was creative, intriguing, and it kept me entertained for hours every day :)
Chaotix: Congratulations!! You did amazing
Good game everyone
Sorry I didn't get around to replying to this until now...
ATPG: Loved the game!!! It was creative, intriguing, and it kept me entertained for hours every day :)
Chaotix: Congratulations!! You did amazing
Good game everyone
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