Star Wars: Fall of the Order [Concluded]

[Renata]

LOL Psychonaut.

[Rebel Jeb]

I'd just like to put out there that Andres told me who Pevergreen was. I'm not sure if he told others who he was also. I don't know if it's a coincidence he got lynched or not, but he needs to stop giving out that information. I learned that the hard way on TWC...

why you thought you're results indicated a direct proof of guilt when you know your role only determines susceptibility

Because it sounded like he was. If I suspect the dark side is in him, that means I suspect he's mafia. Anyways, I may give my scan information out to someone, but I don't know if it's of use, so I probably won't.

Why? Doesn't sound like a Jedi power IMHO.

Because I can...?

And it is...

So..you're wrong...

[Jarema]

Rebel Jeb, maybe you should reveal result of your scan to our 'force-ghost'? He is surely innocent - that way this information will not hurt anybody and may be used in future

[Rebel Jeb]

He's dead, so it's against the rules to contact him, I think.

[a completely inoffensive name]

My hypothesis about Pevergreen is that someone wanted Pevergreen dead so they could continue to say Pevergreen with the P capitalized like this: "Pevergreen" so that they could say Pevergreen without having to fear Pevergreen's retribution over the person saying Pevergreen in the wrong way.

[Askthepizzaguy]

5. The dead cannot reveal anything, including previous night actions, but they may participate as much as they want to contribute to general discussion. The dead also may not communicate outside the thread in any way, shape, or form relating to this game, be it via PM, chat, quicktopic, or other.

For this purpose, Force Ghosts do count as living players. The dead rules don't apply to them.

Updated rule list just to make sure it's made plain there as well.

[Jarema]

For this purpose, Force Ghosts do count as living players. The dead rules don't apply to them.

So I believe that our 'ghost' should become an 'archive' of all informations that should not be revealed publicly

[Diamondeye]

I've seen a few of the games Rebel Jeb's played (though I haven't played one with/against him before), and I agree with Tincow in - no offence, RJ - that this was not a deliberate plot. I think RJ got an "off" result on Tincow through an unreliable scanning ability, and as such, I see no real reason to be chasing RJ. Instead, I agree with Tincow's suspects. vote: Ignoramus is the worst offender, I think.

That said, my first reaction to RJ's reveal was to defend TinCow. My impressions of the two players are very different, and while not saying I had guessed that Tincow would show up innocent, I suspected RJ might be the type of player who reveals as an investigator before assuring himself that his scan ability is 'real' (ie: after the first result). I also think TinCow is a valuable player to have around and very much urge him to keep participating as he is currently, despite his death.

I'm behind in my in-depth analysis because I've been strangely busy, but I'll take an hour to sift through the three (?) writeups I haven't yet looked through some time later, in the weekend maybe. I enjoyed the smartass-showoff between the guy with purple lightsaber and Ushan Nihlek

Finally; Rebel Jeb, please answer this:
Did your (supposed) scan tell you explicitly that Tincow was sith (as you said in the thread and are now being quoted for), or simply that he wasn't innocent?

[Choxorn]

So I believe that our 'ghost' should become an 'archive' of all informations that should not be revealed publicly

Yeah... pevergreen and any future Ghosts are/will be confirmed innocents, so we can safely tell them stuff.

Anyway, Vote: Ignoramus. Between YLC and Ignoramus, he's the one that's looking more mafialike IMO.

[Renata]

:dubious:

He's said what result he got, Diamondeye -- skimming?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Announcement:

I *should* have updated everyone correctly. If you performed a night action (not a defense, an action) and didn't hear what the result was, let me know. If you did not get a result and you did not perform a night action then you did not get an update to your role.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The next couple days are going to be rather insane for me, result PM wise, as a large number of you are going to promote. Be patient, because there are still many dozen players remaining and updating each role can take anywhere from 10-20 minutes. Add up the number of players likely to promote, and you can see my time will be tested. You will all get proper updated PMs, but I will NOT be able to do them in a single sitting. Strong am I with the Force, but not that strong.

What I will do is send everyone who is promoting a "quick result" which informs you of the promotion and what the changes are, but omits your role PM as a whole. Then, with the information in hand that you need, you can patiently wait for your Role PM itself which will look nice and fancy but is rather a luxury in a game like this. You need only be aware of what has changed about you anyway, the rest is for reference and you have a Role PM already for reference. Apologies but I won't be prompt with the promotion Roles being sent out.

If the Sith would do me a favor and knock off a few more players, that'd be great....

[Jarema]

Vote: YLC
I like the reasoning of TinCow., but YLC seems a little better choice for me than Ignoramus.

[pevergreen]

Why? Doesn't sound like a Jedi power IMHO.

Was last time.

I have information that I wish to compare to Jeb's info; that is all.

Hes fine.

More specifically --

Jeb should reveal his results, *in private* to someone he's scanned as not recruitable, but even that only if he's pretty sure that person is a townie. He should not state them in public -- that only helps the Sith. If they have to choose their recruits rather than it being automatic like last game, then Jeb's power makes sense, but it makes as much sense for the Sith as for a townie, unfortunately.

Maybe, he is to me.

pever's dead, unfortunately, and so is Arpeg (who was attacked by *someone*, anyway). I don't know that there are any other candidates.

I kind of agree that the risk is fairly low he's managed to scan a Sith who came up as nonrecruitable and full of the light side, so this is probably just paranoia. No public reveals,though!

Me, pay attention to me!

My hypothesis about Pevergreen is that someone wanted Pevergreen dead so they could continue to say Pevergreen with the P capitalized like this: "Pevergreen" so that they could say Pevergreen without having to fear Pevergreen's retribution over the person saying Pevergreen in the wrong way.

*brain explodes from rage*

Yeah... pevergreen and any future Ghosts are/will be confirmed innocents, so we can safely tell them stuff.

Wrong. Last game, 95% chance Sith got Force Ghost. If I didn't go down my chosen path and give a confirmed win to myself, sith had more votes than jedi at end game.


I've got no leads.

[ByzantineKnight]

Wrong. Last game, 95% chance Sith got Force Ghost. If I didn't go down my chosen path and give a confirmed win to myself, sith had more votes than jedi at end game.

But they tried to recruit you and it didn't work so you are safe to give info to...

I'll go with TinCow on this one, Vote: YLC

[Csargo]

Vote:YLC

I'll go back to my vote from yesterday before I jumped on the TC wagon

[Sigurd]

First off, I'll vote: Ignoramus because history teaches us this man is usually Mafia if active.

In my game, everyone was susceptible to the dark side of the force. ATPG might have changed this.
In my game being able to investigate was a Master Jedi ability, but I doubt Rebel would have announced his result only on the fact that TinCow was susceptible to the dark side AND in the same breath announce that he was a Master Jedi.
Using force stealth would mask this susceptibility. Force cloak would result in not finding the person at all.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I have high hopes for ignoramus's death.

[Diamondeye]

:dubious:

He's said what result he got, Diamondeye -- skimming?

I am aware that his initial accusation said that TinCow is sith. But that might simply have been RJ jumping to conclusions. I haven't noticed him actively confirming that his scan leaves no trace of doubt after that, hence my question.

First off, I'll vote: Ignoramus because history teaches us this man is usually Mafia if active.

In my game, everyone was susceptible to the dark side of the force. ATPG might have changed this.
In my game being able to investigate was a Master Jedi ability, but I doubt Rebel would have announced his result only on the fact that TinCow was susceptible to the dark side AND in the same breath announce that he was a Master Jedi.
Using force stealth would mask this susceptibility. Force cloak would result in not finding the person at all.

Yeah and the Morichro blurred the target as well if used in the wrong order :facepalm:

[Ironside]

First off, I'll vote: Ignoramus because history teaches us this man is usually Mafia if active.
In my game, everyone was susceptible to the dark side of the force. ATPG might have changed this.

Probably. In your game, the ultimate Sith strategy would be to kill off eachother to maximize to amount of force ghosts. Not good rules when the potential for abuse is noted.

I'm going with Tincow's and your recommendation here:
Vote: Ignoramus

About Jeb. One investigation from that Jedi Master Andres mentioned to be sure? Jeb is a decent scanning candidate after all.

[Renata]

I am aware that his initial accusation said that TinCow is sith. But that might simply have been RJ jumping to conclusions. I haven't noticed him actively confirming that his scan leaves no trace of doubt after that, hence my question.

What I'm saying is, he essentially said flat-out that he DID jump to conclusions. I don't understand where you're coming from here, at all -- he didn't write it in Chinese, or anything. It was plainly stated. The issue is that you look defensive, as if you rushed to disentangle yourself from the implications associated with giving TinCow too much benefit of the doubt, chucked in a bunch of other fluff to bulk up the post and look properly involved, but never bothered to actually check your facts first.

Convince me that's not what happened.

[Joooray]

Wrong. Last game, 95% chance Sith got Force Ghost. If I didn't go down my chosen path and give a confirmed win to myself, sith had more votes than jedi at end game.

Wait, but with people being revealed upon death, we know which Force Ghost to trust and which not, right?

But, there must be some kind of catch to the Force Ghost, they just seem to convenient as a hub for a pro-town movement, or is the catch that these can be easily undermined by the Sith, especially paired with the uncertain investigation results?

[Sprig]

Vote: Ignoramus I have listed my reasons before and those are enhanced in light of Tin Cows observations.

[Diamondeye]

What I'm saying is, he essentially said flat-out that he DID jump to conclusions. I don't understand where you're coming from here, at all -- he didn't write it in Chinese, or anything. It was plainly stated. The issue is that you look defensive, as if you rushed to disentangle yourself from the implications associated with giving TinCow too much benefit of the doubt, chucked in a bunch of other fluff to bulk up the post and look properly involved, but never bothered to actually check your facts first.

Convince me that's not what happened.

Looking back on the last couple of pages, I realize I missed Rebel Jeb's reply #845. It somewhat answers the question I asked. Mighty distracted, I must've been. My apologies for just rambling on with questions that were already answered.
My vote stays on Ignoramus as being a prime suspect today. Is there any ways (except for the possible outing of Ignoramus and YLC) that we can put RJ's ability to use now that we know it's not precise?

[Nightbringer]

well, I am going to have to go with vote:ignoramus, the argument about his level involvement is not only valid, but seems to have made him go quiet all of a sudden. He has realized he was revealing himself by posting so much and is trying to go into hiding, we cant let him do that.
I agree with the general consensus that rebeljeb made a mistake, but i ask that he please be role blocked tonight so we can check if there is one less murder, just in case.

[Renata]

I have no issue with you anymore Diamondeye. I took your comment about having the feeling to defend TinCow as defensive of a position you had taken the previous day when actually you'd made no comment on Rebel Jeb/TinCow at all. You skimmed/I took your comment as referring to a previous post that never existed, and never bothered to check up. We're even.

For your last question, I speculated that *maybe* he would get an unusual result on non-top-dog Siths and possibly third parties -- something like "not recruitable, but stinks of the Dark Side". If he ever does, I'd suggest making such results public.

For the other possible results, I expect "not recuitable/light side" to indicate an incorruptible townie, possibly high level Siths with some sort of godfather-ish power, possibly third parties with the same. I'd expect "recruitable/dark side" to indicate corruptible townies and possibly some third parties, and even potentially ALSO some Sith, depending on to what extent they are able to fool investigations.

Finally, given the fluidity of powers in this game, I'd suggest that repeat scans on suspects might occasionally be useful -- if the result ever changes on someone, that should be reason to suspect they might have been recruited, or upgraded their anti-investigator powers in the interim.

And of course, pevergreen could keep track of who's been scanned as corruptible or not (and who the investigator is, in each case).

[Renata]

well, I am going to have to go with vote:ignoramus, the argument about his level involvement is not only valid, but seems to have made him go quiet all of a sudden. He has realized he was revealing himself by posting so much and is trying to go into hiding, we cant let him do that.
I agree with the general consensus that rebeljeb made a mistake, but i ask that he please be role blocked tonight so we can check if there is one less murder, just in case.

That assumes the town currently has a roleblocker (no guarantee) and that the Sith wouldn't just forgo a kill to guarantee a mislynch. Better not to forewarn them, eh?

YLC is also silent.

[TinCow]

That assumes the town currently has a roleblocker (no guarantee) and that the Sith wouldn't just forgo a kill to guarantee a mislynch. Better not to forewarn them, eh?

YLC is also silent.

For what its worth, my personal preference for YLC over Ignoramus is largely based on displeasure with using metagaming evidence. These situations have happened to me several times before and I never feel very good about it. The current situation is nowhere near as bad as the one that occurred in the last game (due to the fact that Ignoramus posted it intentionally and publicly), but my residual guilt from what occurred in Star Wars I makes me actively want to avoid voting on that basis. If I completely ignore my personal feels in that regard, I do agree that Ignoramus should probably take priority over YLC.

[seireikhaan]

For multiple reasons, Ignoramus should be the lynch target today.

However, I'd like people to remember dcmort and lynch him asap after Iggy.

[Renata]

I'd be happy with killing or lynching them both, regardless how the first one flips.

[Diamondeye]

well, I am going to have to go with vote:ignoramus, the argument about his level involvement is not only valid, but seems to have made him go quiet all of a sudden. He has realized he was revealing himself by posting so much and is trying to go into hiding, we cant let him do that.
I agree with the general consensus that rebeljeb made a mistake, but i ask that he please be role blocked tonight so we can check if there is one less murder, just in case.

For what it's worth, I don't think blocking RJ is a good idea. Rather, I think someone who can should protect him, for now. Not that we shouldn't keep an eye on what he does, since there's always the possiblity that he's fooled us all and is a sith.

I have no issue with you anymore Diamondeye. I took your comment about having the feeling to defend TinCow as defensive of a position you had taken the previous day when actually you'd made no comment on Rebel Jeb/TinCow at all. You skimmed/I took your comment as referring to a previous post that never existed, and never bothered to check up. We're even.

For your last question, I speculated that *maybe* he would get an unusual result on non-top-dog Siths and possibly third parties -- something like "not recruitable, but stinks of the Dark Side". If he ever does, I'd suggest making such results public.

For the other possible results, I expect "not recuitable/light side" to indicate an incorruptible townie, possibly high level Siths with some sort of godfather-ish power, possibly third parties with the same. I'd expect "recruitable/dark side" to indicate corruptible townies and possibly some third parties, and even potentially ALSO some Sith, depending on to what extent they are able to fool investigations.

Finally, given the fluidity of powers in this game, I'd suggest that repeat scans on suspects might occasionally be useful -- if the result ever changes on someone, that should be reason to suspect they might have been recruited, or upgraded their anti-investigator powers in the interim.

And of course, pevergreen could keep track of who's been scanned as corruptible or not (and who the investigator is, in each case).

Goodie Glad we got that out of the way. Seems like we're equally bad at checking our facts
I was thinking along the same lines that you are, in that the ability might be clearer against siths. But also that they could easily be concealed, which was why I considered the usability of the ability (mindnumbing wordmingling here!) in the first place.

For what its worth, my personal preference for YLC over Ignoramus is largely based on displeasure with using metagaming evidence. These situations have happened to me several times before and I never feel very good about it. The current situation is nowhere near as bad as the one that occurred in the last game (due to the fact that Ignoramus posted it intentionally and publicly), but my residual guilt from what occurred in Star Wars I makes me actively want to avoid voting on that basis. If I completely ignore my personal feels in that regard, I do agree that Ignoramus should probably take priority over YLC.

My respects I understand what you're getting at but... Well, I think this kind of metagaming (due to the details you picked out) isn't out of bounds.